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From Ray Chen <clrayc...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Harmony Select Milestone One
Date Thu, 27 May 2010 09:52:46 GMT
Hi Jimmy,
How about we give different snapshots for different famous application
like HarmonySelect-Tomcat-snapshot, HarmonySelect-Hadoop-sanpshot...
When a application is fully tested, we can make a special jre for it.
Any comments?

2010/5/27 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
> Hi Alexei,
>
>     That is very kind of you to remind the risk of this proposal, really
> appreciate!
>     Yes we'd learn a lot from Alexey Petrenko's great work. Why a
> successful combination with harmony don't catch customers' eyes? Was its
> footprint a bit large? Or it performance cannot compete with other JREs? Was
> it too unstable to use?  Or just we don't continue to support? All these
> questions we may find solutions. For an example, we may publish a new
> customized jre/combination in every milestone to show our continuous support
> to these applications - these may take a little time to run testcases before
> every release, no big effort .
>     Our ultimate goals is to attract customers to our Harmony project, so
> work with some real and hot applications may be a good way - to make  a
> "select" jre for different requirements. Currently, many java projects, like
> Hadoop etc, use Oracle/Sun's jre as the default choice ( which is stated in
> their document). Different from Alexey Petrenko's previous select, we'd
> think about a more flexible,  different way, even go a little far beyond
> spec if that should meet more requirements - we are very free in this
> harmony-select. I imagine one day, Hadoop, tomcat and other projects will
> announce Harmony/Harmony-Select as its default JRE, which will be smaller,
> faster and more stable for the specific program.
>
>     Thank you very much Alexei, that is a warm help to me and this
> proposal. Now can understand this is really not an easy way and may cost
> more than I think. But I believe we'd keep going with Harmony - see how far
> we can explore :)
>
> 2010/5/26 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
>
>> I saw how Jimmy's idea appeared among GSoC tasks last year.
>> Persistence is an important component of success, and Jimmy has shown
>> enough. Why should anyone want to stop him from trying?
>>
>> The whole point of public discussion is to collect different opinions
>> and get in touch with public experience. "If I have seen a little
>> further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." I just want
>> Jimmy to consider Alexey Petrenko's shoulders.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/5/26 Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>:
>> > On 26/May/2010 11:56, Alexei Fedotov wrote:
>> >> I agree that Alexey Petrenko idea to bundle projects was very
>> >> successful. IMHO, unlike ideas open source projects evolve in time,
>> >> and those ones which are dropped and no longer maintained hardly are
>> >> successful.
>> >
>> > You are right to point it out, and I'm sure you'll agree it is not a
>> > reason to stop the next person with enthusiasm from trying :-)
>> >
>> >> From the bright side, one gets a unique opportunity to bring a new
>> >> life to these projects [1], [2] and, maybe, learn few lessons.
>> >>
>> >> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
>> >> [2] http://harmony.apache.org/bundles.html#Tomcat
>> >
>> > Yes, indeed.  If Alexey is still reading the list his input would be
>> > most welcomed.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Tim
>> >
>> >> 2010/5/26 Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>:
>> >>> On 26/May/2010 09:31, Alexei Fedotov wrote:
>> >>>> JFYI, Alexey Petrenko & company created select builds for Tomcat
and
>> >>>> Eclipse. What will make your approach more successful?
>> >>> I happen to think that the work Alexey & company did was very useful
>> and
>> >>> was successful.  You will recall that Eclipse were distributing an
>> early
>> >>> Harmony runtime milestone build bundled with Eclipse from their booth
>> at
>> >>> JavaOne.
>> >>>
>> >>> Demonstrating the success of Harmony with Eclipse and Tomcat, and
>> >>> forming parts of other projects helps promote the Harmony project as
a
>> >>> source of solid technology.
>> >>>
>> >>> Harmony Select is a bit different since the proposal is to 'select'
>> >>> those modules that can be combined into a viable runtime based on the
>> >>> Harmony technology.  Hadoop is an interesting example since there are
>> >>> likely customizations and optimizations we can perform in the runtime
>> >>> that play to Hadoop's strengths.  However, until we get these examples
>> >>> working it won't be obvious which enhancements make sense.
>> >>>
>> >>> Experimenting with a variety of runtimes derived from Harmony
>> technology
>> >>> is great.  There is an interesting challenge in figuring out what we
>> can
>> >>> do with this code, and how we can make it adaptable to a variety of
>> >>> consumers, though I would be very keen to ensure all our snapshots are
>> >>> based off a common code base so that bug fixing for one gives the
>> >>> benefit to all of them.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>> Tim
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> 2010/5/26 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
>> >>>>> Hi Alexei Fedotov,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>      I don't know Alexey Petrenko's experiment, interested
in that,
>> please
>> >>>>> tell us if you have more information.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>      I agree whole cycle of application support should be
very great
>> for
>> >>>>> the applications - but it sounds like some commercial activities
>> rather than
>> >>>>> open source development. However for open source projects, I
believe
>> it will
>> >>>>> be a great if we can support some real application or even become
>> their
>> >>>>> default JRE, especially some hot open source Apps, as eclipse
+
>> Harmony, or
>> >>>>> Harmony in Android/WebOS, though they use different VM and don't
come
>> back
>> >>>>> much any more ;) .
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>      I don't have any particular customers in mind, just
think we'd
>> look
>> >>>>> for a different and flexible solution for various of applications.
>> What do
>> >>>>> you think?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 2010/5/25 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Jimmy, why are you doing these select builds? Alexey Petrenko
have
>> >>>>>> shown that even the finest bundling won't make Harmony more
popular.
>> >>>>>> People these days want usability and the whole cycle of
application
>> >>>>>> support. Do you have a particular customer in mind?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>> >>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>> >>>>>> http://www.telecom-express.ru/
>> >>>>>> http://harmony.apache.org/
>> >>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ http://klsh.ru/
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 2010/5/25 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>:
>> >>>>>>> Hadoop is an interesting choice, because it is used
for application
>> >>>>>>> hosting. Though much more common choice would be Tomcat
or Jetty.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>> >>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>> >>>>>>> http://www.telecom-express.ru/
>> >>>>>>> http://harmony.apache.org/
>> >>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ http://klsh.ru/
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Jimmy,Jing Lv <
>> firepure@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>      We are very close to publish Harmony5 M14
and Harmony6 M2,
>> what
>> >>>>>> great
>> >>>>>>>> achievements since we created Harmony project!
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>      Now we may think about something different,
satisfy more
>> >>>>>> requirements.
>> >>>>>>>> Different application requirement need different
JRE - it may
>> differ
>> >>>>>> very
>> >>>>>>>> much in class-lib modules, providers, and VMs.  Harmony
select,
>> say, a
>> >>>>>>>> smaller, more flexible harmony runtime, may be a
good candidate in
>> such
>> >>>>>>>> environments. We may not follow Oracle/Sun exactly
in this
>> runtime,
>> >>>>>> allow
>> >>>>>>>> more innovations, different modules selections,
 and different
>> >>>>>>>> functionalities to meet different requirements.
We may also call
>> for
>> >>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>>> input from real Java applications, developers, especially
hot
>> >>>>>> open-source
>> >>>>>>>> projects who are the potential customers of Harmony.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>      We've already created an initial target
in Harmony to build a
>> >>>>>> Select
>> >>>>>>>> binary. We remove some client-side related modules
(like AWT,
>> swing etc)
>> >>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>> reduce the size while keep the main functionality
for server side
>> >>>>>>>> applications. This is a startup, very far from the
finial
>> versions.
>> >>>>>> However
>> >>>>>>>> I believe we can start some milestones with defined
criterion like
>> >>>>>> standard
>> >>>>>>>> Harmony.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>      For the first milestone of Harmony-Select,
I suggest we'd
>> have
>> >>>>>>>> following criterion:
>> >>>>>>>> 1. build pass on both windows/linux platforms;
>> >>>>>>>> 2. pass all Harmony unit testcases in the selected
module on these
>> >>>>>>>> platforms;
>> >>>>>>>> 3. Choose Apache Hadoop as a real Application test,
pass its
>> common test
>> >>>>>> on
>> >>>>>>>> these platforms for the first milestone.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>      Wait for any kindly suggestions, opinions
and comments.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Best Regards!
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best Regards!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>> >>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>> >>>>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best Regards!
>
> Jimmy, Jing Lv
> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>



-- 
Regards,

Ray Chen

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