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From "Jimmy,Jing Lv" <firep...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Harmony Select Milestone One
Date Thu, 27 May 2010 10:18:17 GMT
Hi,

    Ray, I guess this may be a choice - but not sure if we shall make it so
specific - there is so many applications existing! And I guess there won't
be very much differences between each of them.
    I think maybe we can find out some other solutions, e.g setup a base and
make some plug-able components available for different applications.
    Anyway this is a good point :)

2010/5/27 Ray Chen <clraychen@gmail.com>

> Hi Jimmy,
> How about we give different snapshots for different famous application
> like HarmonySelect-Tomcat-snapshot, HarmonySelect-Hadoop-sanpshot...
> When a application is fully tested, we can make a special jre for it.
> Any comments?
>
> 2010/5/27 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Alexei,
> >
> >     That is very kind of you to remind the risk of this proposal, really
> > appreciate!
> >     Yes we'd learn a lot from Alexey Petrenko's great work. Why a
> > successful combination with harmony don't catch customers' eyes? Was its
> > footprint a bit large? Or it performance cannot compete with other JREs?
> Was
> > it too unstable to use?  Or just we don't continue to support? All these
> > questions we may find solutions. For an example, we may publish a new
> > customized jre/combination in every milestone to show our continuous
> support
> > to these applications - these may take a little time to run testcases
> before
> > every release, no big effort .
> >     Our ultimate goals is to attract customers to our Harmony project, so
> > work with some real and hot applications may be a good way - to make  a
> > "select" jre for different requirements. Currently, many java projects,
> like
> > Hadoop etc, use Oracle/Sun's jre as the default choice ( which is stated
> in
> > their document). Different from Alexey Petrenko's previous select, we'd
> > think about a more flexible,  different way, even go a little far beyond
> > spec if that should meet more requirements - we are very free in this
> > harmony-select. I imagine one day, Hadoop, tomcat and other projects will
> > announce Harmony/Harmony-Select as its default JRE, which will be
> smaller,
> > faster and more stable for the specific program.
> >
> >     Thank you very much Alexei, that is a warm help to me and this
> > proposal. Now can understand this is really not an easy way and may cost
> > more than I think. But I believe we'd keep going with Harmony - see how
> far
> > we can explore :)
> >
> > 2010/5/26 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
> >
> >> I saw how Jimmy's idea appeared among GSoC tasks last year.
> >> Persistence is an important component of success, and Jimmy has shown
> >> enough. Why should anyone want to stop him from trying?
> >>
> >> The whole point of public discussion is to collect different opinions
> >> and get in touch with public experience. "If I have seen a little
> >> further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." I just want
> >> Jimmy to consider Alexey Petrenko's shoulders.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2010/5/26 Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>:
> >> > On 26/May/2010 11:56, Alexei Fedotov wrote:
> >> >> I agree that Alexey Petrenko idea to bundle projects was very
> >> >> successful. IMHO, unlike ideas open source projects evolve in time,
> >> >> and those ones which are dropped and no longer maintained hardly are
> >> >> successful.
> >> >
> >> > You are right to point it out, and I'm sure you'll agree it is not a
> >> > reason to stop the next person with enthusiasm from trying :-)
> >> >
> >> >> From the bright side, one gets a unique opportunity to bring a new
> >> >> life to these projects [1], [2] and, maybe, learn few lessons.
> >> >>
> >> >> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
> >> >> [2] http://harmony.apache.org/bundles.html#Tomcat
> >> >
> >> > Yes, indeed.  If Alexey is still reading the list his input would be
> >> > most welcomed.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Tim
> >> >
> >> >> 2010/5/26 Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>:
> >> >>> On 26/May/2010 09:31, Alexei Fedotov wrote:
> >> >>>> JFYI, Alexey Petrenko & company created select builds for
Tomcat
> and
> >> >>>> Eclipse. What will make your approach more successful?
> >> >>> I happen to think that the work Alexey & company did was very
useful
> >> and
> >> >>> was successful.  You will recall that Eclipse were distributing
an
> >> early
> >> >>> Harmony runtime milestone build bundled with Eclipse from their
> booth
> >> at
> >> >>> JavaOne.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Demonstrating the success of Harmony with Eclipse and Tomcat, and
> >> >>> forming parts of other projects helps promote the Harmony project
as
> a
> >> >>> source of solid technology.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Harmony Select is a bit different since the proposal is to 'select'
> >> >>> those modules that can be combined into a viable runtime based
on
> the
> >> >>> Harmony technology.  Hadoop is an interesting example since there
> are
> >> >>> likely customizations and optimizations we can perform in the
> runtime
> >> >>> that play to Hadoop's strengths.  However, until we get these
> examples
> >> >>> working it won't be obvious which enhancements make sense.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Experimenting with a variety of runtimes derived from Harmony
> >> technology
> >> >>> is great.  There is an interesting challenge in figuring out what
we
> >> can
> >> >>> do with this code, and how we can make it adaptable to a variety
of
> >> >>> consumers, though I would be very keen to ensure all our snapshots
> are
> >> >>> based off a common code base so that bug fixing for one gives the
> >> >>> benefit to all of them.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Regards,
> >> >>> Tim
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> 2010/5/26 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
> >> >>>>> Hi Alexei Fedotov,
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>      I don't know Alexey Petrenko's experiment, interested
in
> that,
> >> please
> >> >>>>> tell us if you have more information.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>      I agree whole cycle of application support should
be very
> great
> >> for
> >> >>>>> the applications - but it sounds like some commercial activities
> >> rather than
> >> >>>>> open source development. However for open source projects,
I
> believe
> >> it will
> >> >>>>> be a great if we can support some real application or even
become
> >> their
> >> >>>>> default JRE, especially some hot open source Apps, as eclipse
+
> >> Harmony, or
> >> >>>>> Harmony in Android/WebOS, though they use different VM
and don't
> come
> >> back
> >> >>>>> much any more ;) .
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>      I don't have any particular customers in mind, just
think
> we'd
> >> look
> >> >>>>> for a different and flexible solution for various of applications.
> >> What do
> >> >>>>> you think?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> 2010/5/25 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Jimmy, why are you doing these select builds? Alexey
Petrenko
> have
> >> >>>>>> shown that even the finest bundling won't make Harmony
more
> popular.
> >> >>>>>> People these days want usability and the whole cycle
of
> application
> >> >>>>>> support. Do you have a particular customer in mind?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
> >> >>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
> >> >>>>>> http://www.telecom-express.ru/
> >> >>>>>> http://harmony.apache.org/
> >> >>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ http://klsh.ru/
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> 2010/5/25 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>:
> >> >>>>>>> Hadoop is an interesting choice, because it is
used for
> application
> >> >>>>>>> hosting. Though much more common choice would be
Tomcat or
> Jetty.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
> >> >>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
> >> >>>>>>> http://www.telecom-express.ru/
> >> >>>>>>> http://harmony.apache.org/
> >> >>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ http://klsh.ru/
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Jimmy,Jing Lv
<
> >> firepure@gmail.com>
> >> >>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>      We are very close to publish Harmony5
M14 and Harmony6 M2,
> >> what
> >> >>>>>> great
> >> >>>>>>>> achievements since we created Harmony project!
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>      Now we may think about something different,
satisfy more
> >> >>>>>> requirements.
> >> >>>>>>>> Different application requirement need different
JRE - it may
> >> differ
> >> >>>>>> very
> >> >>>>>>>> much in class-lib modules, providers, and VMs.
 Harmony select,
> >> say, a
> >> >>>>>>>> smaller, more flexible harmony runtime, may
be a good candidate
> in
> >> such
> >> >>>>>>>> environments. We may not follow Oracle/Sun
exactly in this
> >> runtime,
> >> >>>>>> allow
> >> >>>>>>>> more innovations, different modules selections,
 and different
> >> >>>>>>>> functionalities to meet different requirements.
We may also
> call
> >> for
> >> >>>>>> more
> >> >>>>>>>> input from real Java applications, developers,
especially hot
> >> >>>>>> open-source
> >> >>>>>>>> projects who are the potential customers of
Harmony.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>      We've already created an initial target
in Harmony to
> build a
> >> >>>>>> Select
> >> >>>>>>>> binary. We remove some client-side related
modules (like AWT,
> >> swing etc)
> >> >>>>>> to
> >> >>>>>>>> reduce the size while keep the main functionality
for server
> side
> >> >>>>>>>> applications. This is a startup, very far from
the finial
> >> versions.
> >> >>>>>> However
> >> >>>>>>>> I believe we can start some milestones with
defined criterion
> like
> >> >>>>>> standard
> >> >>>>>>>> Harmony.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>      For the first milestone of Harmony-Select,
I suggest we'd
> >> have
> >> >>>>>>>> following criterion:
> >> >>>>>>>> 1. build pass on both windows/linux platforms;
> >> >>>>>>>> 2. pass all Harmony unit testcases in the selected
module on
> these
> >> >>>>>>>> platforms;
> >> >>>>>>>> 3. Choose Apache Hadoop as a real Application
test, pass its
> >> common test
> >> >>>>>> on
> >> >>>>>>>> these platforms for the first milestone.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>      Wait for any kindly suggestions, opinions
and comments.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> --
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Best Regards!
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> --
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Best Regards!
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
> >> >>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Best Regards!
> >
> > Jimmy, Jing Lv
> > China Software Development Lab, IBM
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Ray Chen
>



-- 

Best Regards!

Jimmy, Jing Lv
China Software Development Lab, IBM

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