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From "Jimmy,Jing Lv" <firep...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Harmony Select Milestone One
Date Thu, 27 May 2010 09:45:34 GMT
Hi Alexei,

     That is very kind of you to remind the risk of this proposal, really
appreciate!
     Yes we'd learn a lot from Alexey Petrenko's great work. Why a
successful combination with harmony don't catch customers' eyes? Was its
footprint a bit large? Or it performance cannot compete with other JREs? Was
it too unstable to use?  Or just we don't continue to support? All these
questions we may find solutions. For an example, we may publish a new
customized jre/combination in every milestone to show our continuous support
to these applications - these may take a little time to run testcases before
every release, no big effort .
     Our ultimate goals is to attract customers to our Harmony project, so
work with some real and hot applications may be a good way - to make  a
"select" jre for different requirements. Currently, many java projects, like
Hadoop etc, use Oracle/Sun's jre as the default choice ( which is stated in
their document). Different from Alexey Petrenko's previous select, we'd
think about a more flexible,  different way, even go a little far beyond
spec if that should meet more requirements - we are very free in this
harmony-select. I imagine one day, Hadoop, tomcat and other projects will
announce Harmony/Harmony-Select as its default JRE, which will be smaller,
faster and more stable for the specific program.

     Thank you very much Alexei, that is a warm help to me and this
proposal. Now can understand this is really not an easy way and may cost
more than I think. But I believe we'd keep going with Harmony - see how far
we can explore :)

2010/5/26 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>

> I saw how Jimmy's idea appeared among GSoC tasks last year.
> Persistence is an important component of success, and Jimmy has shown
> enough. Why should anyone want to stop him from trying?
>
> The whole point of public discussion is to collect different opinions
> and get in touch with public experience. "If I have seen a little
> further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." I just want
> Jimmy to consider Alexey Petrenko's shoulders.
>
>
>
>
> 2010/5/26 Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>:
> > On 26/May/2010 11:56, Alexei Fedotov wrote:
> >> I agree that Alexey Petrenko idea to bundle projects was very
> >> successful. IMHO, unlike ideas open source projects evolve in time,
> >> and those ones which are dropped and no longer maintained hardly are
> >> successful.
> >
> > You are right to point it out, and I'm sure you'll agree it is not a
> > reason to stop the next person with enthusiasm from trying :-)
> >
> >> From the bright side, one gets a unique opportunity to bring a new
> >> life to these projects [1], [2] and, maybe, learn few lessons.
> >>
> >> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
> >> [2] http://harmony.apache.org/bundles.html#Tomcat
> >
> > Yes, indeed.  If Alexey is still reading the list his input would be
> > most welcomed.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tim
> >
> >> 2010/5/26 Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>:
> >>> On 26/May/2010 09:31, Alexei Fedotov wrote:
> >>>> JFYI, Alexey Petrenko & company created select builds for Tomcat
and
> >>>> Eclipse. What will make your approach more successful?
> >>> I happen to think that the work Alexey & company did was very useful
> and
> >>> was successful.  You will recall that Eclipse were distributing an
> early
> >>> Harmony runtime milestone build bundled with Eclipse from their booth
> at
> >>> JavaOne.
> >>>
> >>> Demonstrating the success of Harmony with Eclipse and Tomcat, and
> >>> forming parts of other projects helps promote the Harmony project as a
> >>> source of solid technology.
> >>>
> >>> Harmony Select is a bit different since the proposal is to 'select'
> >>> those modules that can be combined into a viable runtime based on the
> >>> Harmony technology.  Hadoop is an interesting example since there are
> >>> likely customizations and optimizations we can perform in the runtime
> >>> that play to Hadoop's strengths.  However, until we get these examples
> >>> working it won't be obvious which enhancements make sense.
> >>>
> >>> Experimenting with a variety of runtimes derived from Harmony
> technology
> >>> is great.  There is an interesting challenge in figuring out what we
> can
> >>> do with this code, and how we can make it adaptable to a variety of
> >>> consumers, though I would be very keen to ensure all our snapshots are
> >>> based off a common code base so that bug fixing for one gives the
> >>> benefit to all of them.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> 2010/5/26 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
> >>>>> Hi Alexei Fedotov,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      I don't know Alexey Petrenko's experiment, interested in that,
> please
> >>>>> tell us if you have more information.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      I agree whole cycle of application support should be very great
> for
> >>>>> the applications - but it sounds like some commercial activities
> rather than
> >>>>> open source development. However for open source projects, I believe
> it will
> >>>>> be a great if we can support some real application or even become
> their
> >>>>> default JRE, especially some hot open source Apps, as eclipse +
> Harmony, or
> >>>>> Harmony in Android/WebOS, though they use different VM and don't
come
> back
> >>>>> much any more ;) .
> >>>>>
> >>>>>      I don't have any particular customers in mind, just think we'd
> look
> >>>>> for a different and flexible solution for various of applications.
> What do
> >>>>> you think?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2010/5/25 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Jimmy, why are you doing these select builds? Alexey Petrenko
have
> >>>>>> shown that even the finest bundling won't make Harmony more
popular.
> >>>>>> People these days want usability and the whole cycle of application
> >>>>>> support. Do you have a particular customer in mind?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
> >>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
> >>>>>> http://www.telecom-express.ru/
> >>>>>> http://harmony.apache.org/
> >>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ http://klsh.ru/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2010/5/25 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>> Hadoop is an interesting choice, because it is used for
application
> >>>>>>> hosting. Though much more common choice would be Tomcat
or Jetty.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
> >>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
> >>>>>>> http://www.telecom-express.ru/
> >>>>>>> http://harmony.apache.org/
> >>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ http://klsh.ru/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Jimmy,Jing Lv <
> firepure@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>      We are very close to publish Harmony5 M14 and Harmony6
M2,
> what
> >>>>>> great
> >>>>>>>> achievements since we created Harmony project!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>      Now we may think about something different, satisfy
more
> >>>>>> requirements.
> >>>>>>>> Different application requirement need different JRE
- it may
> differ
> >>>>>> very
> >>>>>>>> much in class-lib modules, providers, and VMs.  Harmony
select,
> say, a
> >>>>>>>> smaller, more flexible harmony runtime, may be a good
candidate in
> such
> >>>>>>>> environments. We may not follow Oracle/Sun exactly in
this
> runtime,
> >>>>>> allow
> >>>>>>>> more innovations, different modules selections,  and
different
> >>>>>>>> functionalities to meet different requirements. We may
also call
> for
> >>>>>> more
> >>>>>>>> input from real Java applications, developers, especially
hot
> >>>>>> open-source
> >>>>>>>> projects who are the potential customers of Harmony.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>      We've already created an initial target in Harmony
to build a
> >>>>>> Select
> >>>>>>>> binary. We remove some client-side related modules (like
AWT,
> swing etc)
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> reduce the size while keep the main functionality for
server side
> >>>>>>>> applications. This is a startup, very far from the finial
> versions.
> >>>>>> However
> >>>>>>>> I believe we can start some milestones with defined
criterion like
> >>>>>> standard
> >>>>>>>> Harmony.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>      For the first milestone of Harmony-Select, I suggest
we'd
> have
> >>>>>>>> following criterion:
> >>>>>>>> 1. build pass on both windows/linux platforms;
> >>>>>>>> 2. pass all Harmony unit testcases in the selected module
on these
> >>>>>>>> platforms;
> >>>>>>>> 3. Choose Apache Hadoop as a real Application test,
pass its
> common test
> >>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>> these platforms for the first milestone.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>      Wait for any kindly suggestions, opinions and comments.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Best Regards!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best Regards!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
> >>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
> >>>>>
> >>
> >
>



-- 

Best Regards!

Jimmy, Jing Lv
China Software Development Lab, IBM

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