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From Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedo...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Harmony Select Milestone One
Date Wed, 26 May 2010 11:49:55 GMT
I saw how Jimmy's idea appeared among GSoC tasks last year.
Persistence is an important component of success, and Jimmy has shown
enough. Why should anyone want to stop him from trying?

The whole point of public discussion is to collect different opinions
and get in touch with public experience. "If I have seen a little
further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." I just want
Jimmy to consider Alexey Petrenko's shoulders.




2010/5/26 Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>:
> On 26/May/2010 11:56, Alexei Fedotov wrote:
>> I agree that Alexey Petrenko idea to bundle projects was very
>> successful. IMHO, unlike ideas open source projects evolve in time,
>> and those ones which are dropped and no longer maintained hardly are
>> successful.
>
> You are right to point it out, and I'm sure you'll agree it is not a
> reason to stop the next person with enthusiasm from trying :-)
>
>> From the bright side, one gets a unique opportunity to bring a new
>> life to these projects [1], [2] and, maybe, learn few lessons.
>>
>> [1] http://sourceforge.net/projects/eclipse-harmony/
>> [2] http://harmony.apache.org/bundles.html#Tomcat
>
> Yes, indeed.  If Alexey is still reading the list his input would be
> most welcomed.
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>> 2010/5/26 Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>:
>>> On 26/May/2010 09:31, Alexei Fedotov wrote:
>>>> JFYI, Alexey Petrenko & company created select builds for Tomcat and
>>>> Eclipse. What will make your approach more successful?
>>> I happen to think that the work Alexey & company did was very useful and
>>> was successful.  You will recall that Eclipse were distributing an early
>>> Harmony runtime milestone build bundled with Eclipse from their booth at
>>> JavaOne.
>>>
>>> Demonstrating the success of Harmony with Eclipse and Tomcat, and
>>> forming parts of other projects helps promote the Harmony project as a
>>> source of solid technology.
>>>
>>> Harmony Select is a bit different since the proposal is to 'select'
>>> those modules that can be combined into a viable runtime based on the
>>> Harmony technology.  Hadoop is an interesting example since there are
>>> likely customizations and optimizations we can perform in the runtime
>>> that play to Hadoop's strengths.  However, until we get these examples
>>> working it won't be obvious which enhancements make sense.
>>>
>>> Experimenting with a variety of runtimes derived from Harmony technology
>>> is great.  There is an interesting challenge in figuring out what we can
>>> do with this code, and how we can make it adaptable to a variety of
>>> consumers, though I would be very keen to ensure all our snapshots are
>>> based off a common code base so that bug fixing for one gives the
>>> benefit to all of them.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2010/5/26 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
>>>>> Hi Alexei Fedotov,
>>>>>
>>>>>      I don't know Alexey Petrenko's experiment, interested in that,
please
>>>>> tell us if you have more information.
>>>>>
>>>>>      I agree whole cycle of application support should be very great
for
>>>>> the applications - but it sounds like some commercial activities rather
than
>>>>> open source development. However for open source projects, I believe
it will
>>>>> be a great if we can support some real application or even become their
>>>>> default JRE, especially some hot open source Apps, as eclipse + Harmony,
or
>>>>> Harmony in Android/WebOS, though they use different VM and don't come
back
>>>>> much any more ;) .
>>>>>
>>>>>      I don't have any particular customers in mind, just think we'd
look
>>>>> for a different and flexible solution for various of applications. What
do
>>>>> you think?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2010/5/25 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jimmy, why are you doing these select builds? Alexey Petrenko have
>>>>>> shown that even the finest bundling won't make Harmony more popular.
>>>>>> People these days want usability and the whole cycle of application
>>>>>> support. Do you have a particular customer in mind?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>>>>>> http://www.telecom-express.ru/
>>>>>> http://harmony.apache.org/
>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ http://klsh.ru/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2010/5/25 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>> Hadoop is an interesting choice, because it is used for application
>>>>>>> hosting. Though much more common choice would be Tomcat or Jetty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>>>>>>> http://www.telecom-express.ru/
>>>>>>> http://harmony.apache.org/
>>>>>>> http://dataved.ru/ http://klsh.ru/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      We are very close to publish Harmony5 M14 and Harmony6
M2, what
>>>>>> great
>>>>>>>> achievements since we created Harmony project!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      Now we may think about something different, satisfy
more
>>>>>> requirements.
>>>>>>>> Different application requirement need different JRE - it
may differ
>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> much in class-lib modules, providers, and VMs.  Harmony
select, say, a
>>>>>>>> smaller, more flexible harmony runtime, may be a good candidate
in such
>>>>>>>> environments. We may not follow Oracle/Sun exactly in this
runtime,
>>>>>> allow
>>>>>>>> more innovations, different modules selections,  and different
>>>>>>>> functionalities to meet different requirements. We may also
call for
>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> input from real Java applications, developers, especially
hot
>>>>>> open-source
>>>>>>>> projects who are the potential customers of Harmony.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      We've already created an initial target in Harmony
to build a
>>>>>> Select
>>>>>>>> binary. We remove some client-side related modules (like
AWT, swing etc)
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> reduce the size while keep the main functionality for server
side
>>>>>>>> applications. This is a startup, very far from the finial
versions.
>>>>>> However
>>>>>>>> I believe we can start some milestones with defined criterion
like
>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>> Harmony.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      For the first milestone of Harmony-Select, I suggest
we'd have
>>>>>>>> following criterion:
>>>>>>>> 1. build pass on both windows/linux platforms;
>>>>>>>> 2. pass all Harmony unit testcases in the selected module
on these
>>>>>>>> platforms;
>>>>>>>> 3. Choose Apache Hadoop as a real Application test, pass
its common test
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> these platforms for the first milestone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      Wait for any kindly suggestions, opinions and comments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>>
>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>>>
>>
>

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