Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-harmony-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 90483 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2009 09:41:09 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.3) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 23 Mar 2009 09:41:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 40740 invoked by uid 500); 23 Mar 2009 09:41:07 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-harmony-dev-archive@harmony.apache.org Received: (qmail 40691 invoked by uid 500); 23 Mar 2009 09:41:07 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@harmony.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@harmony.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@harmony.apache.org Received: (qmail 40680 invoked by uid 99); 23 Mar 2009 09:41:07 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (192.87.106.230) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:41:07 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: domain of firepure@gmail.com designates 209.85.200.169 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.200.169] (HELO wf-out-1314.google.com) (209.85.200.169) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:40:57 +0000 Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 23so2482625wfg.24 for ; Mon, 23 Mar 2009 02:40:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HHdRad19AwIHc8AGhzGHJuoLiBsTt0n0Ng846/PbkmI=; b=vrepsZ+bC0kyd43QBDgcbVysHzIKlzU/keeOp8CiZ6gBumSNGTrCa+/zheVNvJ7GlV oGPNa4Fo+N1tEA0GfhS3bNN2eNkcvYFrFCHy6NvrPOT1W8MwrqQvD0cHHp8LG8zktQ8w xSWBQJ6DQmvSuZFPvRclO6Q3vHpDQDovu3Zwo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=cBQ4CsBAIj3ULGaRwwmHFrD8FsPeKvjpFnkA0sph4P6iqt0JV/RBjU+dBuQ7NGqv1x WgHfx4w3p/nq+bUsH8OQLS/CZva+PAUkDtjZUhRRre1z9tTQHWQlMi4VrIaq3jy/Zge9 MPKGzioCo9U93YWaNqm+G5xyK+/jQKaFKBN5M= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.242.8 with SMTP id p8mr2783034wfh.25.1237801235727; Mon, 23 Mar 2009 02:40:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5c8e69f0903172311i672a5717m643f98889a1c9b30@mail.gmail.com> <5c8e69f0903180125j27c1adcdja6bca01fcf752440@mail.gmail.com> <5c8e69f0903180811p49caa9bdx51a104a753f24117@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:40:35 +0800 Message-ID: <5c8e69f0903230240r15803b21ybc49f0e102691ba8@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: Google Summer of Code 2009 From: "Jimmy,Jing Lv" To: dev@harmony.apache.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org Hi, Sian, I see some students here are interested in attending the GSoC, especially Apache Harmony projects. However as I see there are so many projects now [1] , over 30 without current Harmony Projects, so maybe some projects will not be selected . Do you know the criteria that Apache choose the projects? If the student tries to attend the project but the project fails to be chosen as one of the GSoC project, what will be a waste of time, so I hope I can help them to choose the project correctly. Do you have some ideas? Thanks in advance. [1] http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2009 2009/3/19 Sian January : > Sounds sensible - I'm happy to have a quick read through next week > after everyone has finished writing their descriptions. > > 2009/3/19 Alexei Fedotov : >> Sian, Jummy, >> Some of our recent projects on the Wiki page may put help of an >> English speaker to a good use. What do you think? >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> 2009/3/19 Sian January : >>> Google have officially announced the organisations selected for GSoC, >>> which includes the ASF[1] >>> >>> I think we need to copy our project list on to the ASF Wiki[2] fairly >>> soon as students will be starting to look at the list from now on. >>> >>> Could everyone make sure our Wiki page is up to date over the next few >>> days so we can copy it over next week? >>> >>> [1]http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 >>> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2009 >>> >>> >>> >>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv : >>>> Hi Alexei, >>>> >>>> =9A =9A Thanks for suggests and comments! Your question are very helpf= ul >>>> to me to think more and understand the deeper requirements. >>>> >>>> =9A =9A Yes I see the other proposals have some spec already, I'll sta= rt >>>> to write down the spec and design. As that wiki page is only for >>>> proposal, I'll open new pages(will add link on the proposal page). >>>> =9A =9A Please correct me if I make more mistakes, thanks a lot! >>>> >>>> 2009/3/18 Alexei Fedotov : >>>>> Jimmy, >>>>> >>>>> As for your questions, I have a strong belief that a mentor should >>>>> have 90% of a proper GSoC project design before suggesting the projec= t >>>>> to students even if students are supposed to design the whole project= . >>>>> I think there is still place for analysis and thinking about your >>>>> projects . >>>>> >>>>> Good luck. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv : >>>>>> Hi Alexier, >>>>>> >>>>>> =9A =9A Let me explain a little more. Basically, the motivation come= s >>>>>> from the requirement of the Apache Harmony Projects. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. the requirement of the localized messages >>>>>> =9A =9AIndeed we are lack of them, and we need them for customer use= . >>>>>> However we see there's no resource, no translation team for Harmony >>>>>> Project to do this. And of course for GSoC, it is impossible for it = to >>>>>> support a project simply translate the message. But an automatic too= l >>>>>> sounds reasonable. >>>>>> =9A =9ATechnically, yes we have eclipse or some other tools to extra= ct >>>>>> the String, but I don't see there's a full tool, automatically extra= ct >>>>>> the messages, analysis if necessary to translate, translate and >>>>>> adjust, and at last inject into the source code with ResourceBundle = or >>>>>> property loading mechanism and apply the localization. >>>>>> =9A =9AThis, I believe, is a Win-Win project, help the Harmony proje= ct to >>>>>> be localized, as well as help student to train their skill, thus >>>>>> sounds acceptable for GSoC. If some other project will use it, that'= ll >>>>>> be a plus. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. the new feature of Apache Harmony project >>>>>> a. the requirement of the smallest jre, >>>>>> =9A =9A Yes I see FreeCiv - an amazing project. However as we see, n= ot >>>>>> all project get to know if the jre can be customized, and not all >>>>>> customer know how to customize the jre. It may be an amazing tool fo= r >>>>>> Harmony than Sun, help the customers to make up his smallest jre >>>>>> according his own project, which help them to make their program >>>>>> download size to be smallest. Do you think it'll be a nice feature f= or >>>>>> Harmony to our customers? >>>>>> >>>>>> b. the OSGi/updater >>>>>> =9A =9A OSGi is hot and Apache Harmony has already make its modules >>>>>> bundle. I've heard of many java developers believe if the jdk can >>>>>> adopt OSGi is helpful. It will help some project to be OSGi without >>>>>> apply OSGi module on their projects. And what's more, yes I've got a >>>>>> little investigation on this topic as well, it seems Apache Felix ca= n >>>>>> be applied on Harmony with a few lines changed and a few new methods >>>>>> enhanced on vm, and then start well, And eclipse Equinox looks >>>>>> adaptable as well. If we can go a little further, it may make the >>>>>> Harmony Project to be the first OSGi-ed JDK on the world - cool and >>>>>> attractive to the potential customers, isn't it? If so we can apply = a >>>>>> update mechanism for Harmony easily. >>>>>> >>>>>> =9A =9A Yes I see the new features are beyond the Spec, I think it's= OK >>>>>> if we want to excel Sun's implementation and attract more customers. >>>>>> Do you think the motivation is acceptable? Is there any technical >>>>>> fault on these topics? >>>>>> >>>>>> 2009/3/18 Alexei Fedotov : >>>>>>> Hello Jimmy, >>>>>>> Being brief, I lack your motivation, not technical details. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. I extracted minimal class sets using standard logging to enable >>>>>>> different applications on Harmony more than once. For example, this >>>>>>> was done for initial analysis of FreeCiv GSoC project. Why one woul= d >>>>>>> need a tool? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. Eclipse and many other tools have automatic string extractors fo= r >>>>>>> further localization. I believe you cannot miss all these >>>>>>> //$NON-NLS-1$ comments in the code. Your proposal lacks explanation >>>>>>> why other open source tools do not fit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3. I think that before one develops a Harmony updater, a research i= s >>>>>>> to be conducted why existing updaters cannot be adopted. Yes, I tru= ly >>>>>>> believe that an updater is a separate project unless it complies wi= th >>>>>>> web start specification or OSGi updater specification. For OSGi, on= e >>>>>>> should research if OSGi code can be simply adopted instead of >>>>>>> rewritten. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4. I expect some words about isolation and OPEN component managemen= t >>>>>>> as a motivation for multi-vm. IMHO, this task, if done correctly, i= s >>>>>>> impossible for a student. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv : >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> =9A =9A Thanks Alexei for your suggestion! Sorry maybe I make the >>>>>>>> abstract on the wiki too short to be understandable, I will enrich= the >>>>>>>> information of the project motivation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> =9A =9A The translation tools as I mentioned there, was not focus = on the >>>>>>>> translation(as we know there's so many translation tools) but the >>>>>>>> automatic fetching/injecting mechanism of the open source project >>>>>>>> localizable messages. The first motivation was that we Harmony Pro= ject >>>>>>>> lack those messages compared to Sun's implementation thus was not >>>>>>>> friendly to our users. However think deeper we see many open sourc= e >>>>>>>> projects suffer the similar problem. So the tools was planned to >>>>>>>> automatically help Harmony the message with this tool, what's more= , >>>>>>>> may help some other open source project, especially java projects.= So >>>>>>>> I believe this is still closely related to Harmony and is a >>>>>>>> requirement of the project(not sure if it should be titled with >>>>>>>> "Harmony-tool-5"?) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> =9A =9A The other projects are similar, comes from the requirement= of >>>>>>>> harmony project and customers requirements. Currently the Harmony >>>>>>>> project lack a automatic updater, NSIS offer only windows installa= tion >>>>>>>> tool. The basic idea was simple, create a version checker/updater = for >>>>>>>> Harmony. The smallest classes selector focus on customized-harmony= -jre >>>>>>>> which may be friendly to customer usage, to find the classes with >>>>>>>> -verbose was easy(but still may not be enough, as we don't really = know >>>>>>>> if the current set cover all classes, maybe some classes will be o= nly >>>>>>>> load at some special case), but the problem we want to solve is th= e >>>>>>>> automatic select/build/test/packet for customer application with a >>>>>>>> full but smallest JRE, which may be valuable to customer (e.g, ecl= ipse >>>>>>>> does not need to customize our jre with much effort). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> =9A =9A I don't think they can be called as "new open source proje= ct", >>>>>>>> just some tool set for harmony. What do you think? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> =9A =9A There's another thought, we may enable Apache Harmony JDK = with >>>>>>>> OSGi feature. Yes it was beyond the spec, however it seems valuabl= e if >>>>>>>> we find out a light way, at least we see Harmony modules are alrea= dy >>>>>>>> bundled. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2009/3/17 Alexei Fedotov : >>>>>>>>> I like GSoC tasks from Sean and Andrew. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jimmy, >>>>>>>>> Can you provide a sort of analysis of your tasks? Are there any o= pen >>>>>>>>> source automatic translation tools? How a web updater relates to = NSIS >>>>>>>>> and Java WebStart? Is there any relation between your multi-vm an= d >>>>>>>>> isolation API? What is in a smallest class set except -verbose:cl= ass? >>>>>>>>> Please, provide more motivation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As one of Apache gurus said, "You want start a new open source pr= oject? Don't." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Jimmy,Jing Lv wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> =9A =9AI've added 4 proposal there. Looking for discussions/sugg= estions/comments :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2009/3/16 Sian January : >>>>>>>>>>> Just wanted to encourage people to write their ideas up on the = Wiki - >>>>>>>>>>> only Oliver has done it so far and there is a deadline. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sian >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2009/3/12 Andrew Cornwall : >>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any desire to extend VMTT? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> =9A- add a real assembly format (jsr :label or something like = that, instead of >>>>>>>>>>>> jsr -11.) (Does jasm do this, and if so could we use their for= mat?) >>>>>>>>>>>> =9A- add flexibility for bad classes >>>>>>>>>>>> =9A =9A- specifying the padding for tableswitch/lookupswitch >>>>>>>>>>>> =9A =9A- allow double/long constantpool entries without subseq= uent constant >>>>>>>>>>>> pool entry >>>>>>>>>>>> =9A =9A- mixed asm and bin in methods >>>>>>>>>>>> =9A =9A- allow insertion of binary data at other places (eg co= nstant pool) >>>>>>>>>>>> =9A- fix bugs >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> =9A =9AAndrew Jr. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Xiao-Feng Li wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Egor Pasko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > On the 0x56A day of Apache Harmony Xiao-Feng Li wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Egor Pasko >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> On the 0x56A day of Apache Harmony Xiao-Feng Li wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> This is interesting. Project ideas related to this inclu= de: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> 1. Make Apache Harmony support Google Android applicatio= ns. (Android >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> on Harmony should be much faster with the much more powe= rful JIT and >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> GC). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Do you mean replacing Dalvik on top of the Android stack = or making a >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> system that works on a common desktop? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Something like that... :) =9AAt the moment I prefer the se= cond approach: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to make Harmony ready for Android applications on desktop.= The first >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> approach probably should be a project of Google Android. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > sounds like a nice idea :) though I cannot imagine how much= work is >>>>>>>>>>>>> > required to make this happen.. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, there are lots of work in it. Well only when somebody re= ally >>>>>>>>>>>>> starts thinking about it, =9Acan we gradually get some good s= olution. To >>>>>>>>>>>>> replace Dalvik with Harmony in Android stack might be easier.= In any >>>>>>>>>>>>> case, it requires to run Android on top of a desktop OS, with= full >>>>>>>>>>>>> libc and utils, because that's Harmony needs. That's why I ha= ve the >>>>>>>>>>>>> second project idea, to reduce Harmony into a very concise ve= rsion >>>>>>>>>>>>> that requires only minimum OS supports, as minimum as Android >>>>>>>>>>>>> requires. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>> xiaofeng >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Egor Pasko >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Managed Runtime Technology Center, Intel >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Unless stated otherwise above: >>>>>>>>>>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales wi= th number 741598. >>>>>>>>>>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampsh= ire PO6 3AU >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best Regards! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv >>>>>>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD, >>>>>>>>> =E1=CC=C5=CB=D3=C5=CA =E6=C5=C4=CF=D4=CF=D7, >>>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best Regards! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv >>>>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD, >>>>>>> =E1=CC=C5=CB=D3=C5=CA =E6=C5=C4=CF=D4=CF=D7, >>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards! >>>>>> >>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv >>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD, >>>>> =E1=CC=C5=CB=D3=C5=CA =E6=C5=C4=CF=D4=CF=D7, >>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Best Regards! >>>> >>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv >>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Unless stated otherwise above: >>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with numbe= r 741598. >>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 = 3AU >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> =F3 =D5=D7=C1=D6=C5=CE=C9=C5=CD, >> =E1=CC=C5=CB=D3=C5=CA =E6=C5=C4=CF=D4=CF=D7, >> http://www.telecom-express.ru/ >> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/ >> > > > > -- > Unless stated otherwise above: > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number = 741598. > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3A= U > --=20 Best Regards! Jimmy, Jing Lv China Software Development Lab, IBM