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From Sian January <sianjanu...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: Google Summer of Code 2009
Date Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:52:29 GMT
As an Apache sub-project we can propose as many projects as we like,
but Google will allocate Apache a fixed number of slots (last year it
was 30).  Students apply to a specific GSoC project, then mentors
signal which students they would be willing to mentor.  These student
proposals are then each given a score and the top 30 for the whole of
the ASF (or whatever we're given this year) get through.

So Harmony will probably not get a student for every project, but
hopefully we will get some depending on how good the applications are.
 Last year I think we had 6 in the top 30 out of about 8 with willing
mentors.



2009/3/19 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
> Thanks Sian,
>
>     So if I read correctly, GSoC will accept Apache as an
> organisation so that all of projects will be accepted?
>     I am going to update the wiki page, adding more details soon.
>
> 2009/3/19 Sian January <sianjanuary@googlemail.com>:
>> Google have officially announced the organisations selected for GSoC,
>> which includes the ASF[1]
>>
>> I think we need to copy our project list on to the ASF Wiki[2] fairly
>> soon as students will be starting to look at the list from now on.
>>
>> Could everyone make sure our Wiki page is up to date over the next few
>> days so we can copy it over next week?
>>
>> [1]http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009
>> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2009
>>
>>
>>
>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
>>> Hi Alexei,
>>>
>>>     Thanks for suggests and comments! Your question are very helpful
>>> to me to think more and understand the deeper requirements.
>>>
>>>     Yes I see the other proposals have some spec already, I'll start
>>> to write down the spec and design. As that wiki page is only for
>>> proposal, I'll open new pages(will add link on the proposal page).
>>>     Please correct me if I make more mistakes, thanks a lot!
>>>
>>> 2009/3/18 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>:
>>>> Jimmy,
>>>>
>>>> As for your questions, I have a strong belief that a mentor should
>>>> have 90% of a proper GSoC project design before suggesting the project
>>>> to students even if students are supposed to design the whole project.
>>>> I think there is still place for analysis and thinking about your
>>>> projects .
>>>>
>>>> Good luck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
>>>>> Hi Alexier,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Let me explain a little more. Basically, the motivation comes
>>>>> from the requirement of the Apache Harmony Projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. the requirement of the localized messages
>>>>>    Indeed we are lack of them, and we need them for customer use.
>>>>> However we see there's no resource, no translation team for Harmony
>>>>> Project to do this. And of course for GSoC, it is impossible for it to
>>>>> support a project simply translate the message. But an automatic tool
>>>>> sounds reasonable.
>>>>>    Technically, yes we have eclipse or some other tools to extract
>>>>> the String, but I don't see there's a full tool, automatically extract
>>>>> the messages, analysis if necessary to translate, translate and
>>>>> adjust, and at last inject into the source code with ResourceBundle or
>>>>> property loading mechanism and apply the localization.
>>>>>    This, I believe, is a Win-Win project, help the Harmony project
to
>>>>> be localized, as well as help student to train their skill, thus
>>>>> sounds acceptable for GSoC. If some other project will use it, that'll
>>>>> be a plus.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. the new feature of Apache Harmony project
>>>>> a. the requirement of the smallest jre,
>>>>>     Yes I see FreeCiv - an amazing project. However as we see, not
>>>>> all project get to know if the jre can be customized, and not all
>>>>> customer know how to customize the jre. It may be an amazing tool for
>>>>> Harmony than Sun, help the customers to make up his smallest jre
>>>>> according his own project, which help them to make their program
>>>>> download size to be smallest. Do you think it'll be a nice feature for
>>>>> Harmony to our customers?
>>>>>
>>>>> b. the OSGi/updater
>>>>>     OSGi is hot and Apache Harmony has already make its modules
>>>>> bundle. I've heard of many java developers believe if the jdk can
>>>>> adopt OSGi is helpful. It will help some project to be OSGi without
>>>>> apply OSGi module on their projects. And what's more, yes I've got a
>>>>> little investigation on this topic as well, it seems Apache Felix can
>>>>> be applied on Harmony with a few lines changed and a few new methods
>>>>> enhanced on vm, and then start well, And eclipse Equinox looks
>>>>> adaptable as well. If we can go a little further, it may make the
>>>>> Harmony Project to be the first OSGi-ed JDK on the world - cool and
>>>>> attractive to the potential customers, isn't it? If so we can apply a
>>>>> update mechanism for Harmony easily.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Yes I see the new features are beyond the Spec, I think it's OK
>>>>> if we want to excel Sun's implementation and attract more customers.
>>>>> Do you think the motivation is acceptable? Is there any technical
>>>>> fault on these topics?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/3/18 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>:
>>>>>> Hello Jimmy,
>>>>>> Being brief, I lack your motivation, not technical details.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I extracted minimal class sets using standard logging to enable
>>>>>> different applications on Harmony more than once. For example, this
>>>>>> was done for initial analysis of FreeCiv GSoC project. Why one would
>>>>>> need a tool?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Eclipse and many other tools have automatic string extractors
for
>>>>>> further localization. I believe you cannot miss all these
>>>>>> //$NON-NLS-1$ comments in the code. Your proposal lacks explanation
>>>>>> why other open source tools do not fit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. I think that before one develops a Harmony updater, a research
is
>>>>>> to be conducted why existing updaters cannot be adopted. Yes, I truly
>>>>>> believe that an updater is a separate project unless it complies
with
>>>>>> web start specification or OSGi updater specification. For OSGi,
one
>>>>>> should research if OSGi code can be simply adopted instead of
>>>>>> rewritten.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. I expect some words about isolation and OPEN component management
>>>>>> as a motivation for multi-vm. IMHO, this task, if done correctly,
is
>>>>>> impossible for a student.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Thanks Alexei for your suggestion! Sorry maybe I make the
>>>>>>> abstract on the wiki too short to be understandable, I will enrich
the
>>>>>>> information of the project motivation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     The translation tools as I mentioned there, was not focus
on the
>>>>>>> translation(as we know there's so many translation tools) but
the
>>>>>>> automatic fetching/injecting mechanism of the open source project
>>>>>>> localizable messages. The first motivation was that we Harmony
Project
>>>>>>> lack those messages compared to Sun's implementation thus was
not
>>>>>>> friendly to our users. However think deeper we see many open
source
>>>>>>> projects suffer the similar problem. So the tools was planned
to
>>>>>>> automatically help Harmony the message with this tool, what's
more,
>>>>>>> may help some other open source project, especially java projects.
So
>>>>>>> I believe this is still closely related to Harmony and is a
>>>>>>> requirement of the project(not sure if it should be titled with
>>>>>>> "Harmony-tool-5"?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     The other projects are similar, comes from the requirement
of
>>>>>>> harmony project and customers requirements. Currently the Harmony
>>>>>>> project lack a automatic updater, NSIS offer only windows installation
>>>>>>> tool. The basic idea was simple, create a version checker/updater
for
>>>>>>> Harmony. The smallest classes selector focus on customized-harmony-jre
>>>>>>> which may be friendly to customer usage, to find the classes
with
>>>>>>> -verbose was easy(but still may not be enough, as we don't really
know
>>>>>>> if the current set cover all classes, maybe some classes will
be only
>>>>>>> load at some special case), but the problem we want to solve
is the
>>>>>>> automatic select/build/test/packet for customer application with
a
>>>>>>> full but smallest JRE, which may be valuable to customer (e.g,
eclipse
>>>>>>> does not need to customize our jre with much effort).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     I don't think they can be called as "new open source project",
>>>>>>> just some tool set for harmony. What do you think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     There's another thought, we may enable Apache Harmony JDK
with
>>>>>>> OSGi feature. Yes it was beyond the spec, however it seems valuable
if
>>>>>>> we find out a light way, at least we see Harmony modules are
already
>>>>>>> bundled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2009/3/17 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>> I like GSoC tasks from Sean and Andrew.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jimmy,
>>>>>>>> Can you provide a sort of analysis of your tasks? Are there
any open
>>>>>>>> source automatic translation tools? How a web updater relates
to NSIS
>>>>>>>> and Java WebStart? Is there any relation between your multi-vm
and
>>>>>>>> isolation API? What is in a smallest class set except -verbose:class?
>>>>>>>> Please, provide more motivation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As one of Apache gurus said, "You want start a new open source
project? Don't."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    I've added 4 proposal there. Looking for discussions/suggestions/comments
:)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2009/3/16 Sian January <sianjanuary@googlemail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>> Just wanted to encourage people to write their ideas
up on the Wiki -
>>>>>>>>>> only Oliver has done it so far and there is a deadline.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2009/3/12 Andrew Cornwall <andrew.pack200@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any desire to extend VMTT?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  - add a real assembly format (jsr :label or
something like that, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>> jsr -11.) (Does jasm do this, and if so could
we use their format?)
>>>>>>>>>>>  - add flexibility for bad classes
>>>>>>>>>>>    - specifying the padding for tableswitch/lookupswitch
>>>>>>>>>>>    - allow double/long constantpool entries
without subsequent constant
>>>>>>>>>>> pool entry
>>>>>>>>>>>    - mixed asm and bin in methods
>>>>>>>>>>>    - allow insertion of binary data at other
places (eg constant pool)
>>>>>>>>>>>  - fix bugs
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>    Andrew Jr.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Xiao-Feng Li
<xiaofeng.li@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Egor Pasko
<egor.pasko@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> > On the 0x56A day of Apache Harmony Xiao-Feng
Li wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:46 PM,
Egor Pasko <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> On the 0x56A day of Apache Harmony
Xiao-Feng Li wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> This is interesting. Project
ideas related to this include:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> 1. Make Apache Harmony support
Google Android applications. (Android
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> on Harmony should be much
faster with the much more powerful JIT and
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> GC).
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Do you mean replacing Dalvik
on top of the Android stack or making a
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> system that works on a common
desktop?
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Something like that... :)  At the
moment I prefer the second approach:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to make Harmony ready for Android
applications on desktop. The first
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> approach probably should be a project
of Google Android.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > sounds like a nice idea :) though I
cannot imagine how much work is
>>>>>>>>>>>> > required to make this happen..
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, there are lots of work in it. Well only
when somebody really
>>>>>>>>>>>> starts thinking about it,  can we gradually
get some good solution. To
>>>>>>>>>>>> replace Dalvik with Harmony in Android stack
might be easier. In any
>>>>>>>>>>>> case, it requires to run Android on top of
a desktop OS, with full
>>>>>>>>>>>> libc and utils, because that's Harmony needs.
That's why I have the
>>>>>>>>>>>> second project idea, to reduce Harmony into
a very concise version
>>>>>>>>>>>> that requires only minimum OS supports, as
minimum as Android
>>>>>>>>>>>> requires. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> xiaofeng
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>>>>>> > Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Managed Runtime Technology Center, Intel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Unless stated otherwise above:
>>>>>>>>>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England
and Wales with number 741598.
>>>>>>>>>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth,
Hampshire PO6 3AU
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>>>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> С уважением,
>>>>>>>> Алексей Федотов,
>>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> С уважением,
>>>>>> Алексей Федотов,
>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>>
>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> С уважением,
>>>> Алексей Федотов,
>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Best Regards!
>>>
>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Unless stated otherwise above:
>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598.
>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best Regards!
>
> Jimmy, Jing Lv
> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>



-- 
Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598.
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU

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