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From "Jimmy,Jing Lv" <firep...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Google Summer of Code 2009
Date Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:38:15 GMT
Thanks Sian,

     So if I read correctly, GSoC will accept Apache as an
organisation so that all of projects will be accepted?
     I am going to update the wiki page, adding more details soon.

2009/3/19 Sian January <sianjanuary@googlemail.com>:
> Google have officially announced the organisations selected for GSoC,
> which includes the ASF[1]
>
> I think we need to copy our project list on to the ASF Wiki[2] fairly
> soon as students will be starting to look at the list from now on.
>
> Could everyone make sure our Wiki page is up to date over the next few
> days so we can copy it over next week?
>
> [1]http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009
> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2009
>
>
>
> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
>> Hi Alexei,
>>
>>     Thanks for suggests and comments! Your question are very helpful
>> to me to think more and understand the deeper requirements.
>>
>>     Yes I see the other proposals have some spec already, I'll start
>> to write down the spec and design. As that wiki page is only for
>> proposal, I'll open new pages(will add link on the proposal page).
>>     Please correct me if I make more mistakes, thanks a lot!
>>
>> 2009/3/18 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>:
>>> Jimmy,
>>>
>>> As for your questions, I have a strong belief that a mentor should
>>> have 90% of a proper GSoC project design before suggesting the project
>>> to students even if students are supposed to design the whole project.
>>> I think there is still place for analysis and thinking about your
>>> projects .
>>>
>>> Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
>>>> Hi Alexier,
>>>>
>>>>     Let me explain a little more. Basically, the motivation comes
>>>> from the requirement of the Apache Harmony Projects.
>>>>
>>>> 1. the requirement of the localized messages
>>>>    Indeed we are lack of them, and we need them for customer use.
>>>> However we see there's no resource, no translation team for Harmony
>>>> Project to do this. And of course for GSoC, it is impossible for it to
>>>> support a project simply translate the message. But an automatic tool
>>>> sounds reasonable.
>>>>    Technically, yes we have eclipse or some other tools to extract
>>>> the String, but I don't see there's a full tool, automatically extract
>>>> the messages, analysis if necessary to translate, translate and
>>>> adjust, and at last inject into the source code with ResourceBundle or
>>>> property loading mechanism and apply the localization.
>>>>    This, I believe, is a Win-Win project, help the Harmony project to
>>>> be localized, as well as help student to train their skill, thus
>>>> sounds acceptable for GSoC. If some other project will use it, that'll
>>>> be a plus.
>>>>
>>>> 2. the new feature of Apache Harmony project
>>>> a. the requirement of the smallest jre,
>>>>     Yes I see FreeCiv - an amazing project. However as we see, not
>>>> all project get to know if the jre can be customized, and not all
>>>> customer know how to customize the jre. It may be an amazing tool for
>>>> Harmony than Sun, help the customers to make up his smallest jre
>>>> according his own project, which help them to make their program
>>>> download size to be smallest. Do you think it'll be a nice feature for
>>>> Harmony to our customers?
>>>>
>>>> b. the OSGi/updater
>>>>     OSGi is hot and Apache Harmony has already make its modules
>>>> bundle. I've heard of many java developers believe if the jdk can
>>>> adopt OSGi is helpful. It will help some project to be OSGi without
>>>> apply OSGi module on their projects. And what's more, yes I've got a
>>>> little investigation on this topic as well, it seems Apache Felix can
>>>> be applied on Harmony with a few lines changed and a few new methods
>>>> enhanced on vm, and then start well, And eclipse Equinox looks
>>>> adaptable as well. If we can go a little further, it may make the
>>>> Harmony Project to be the first OSGi-ed JDK on the world - cool and
>>>> attractive to the potential customers, isn't it? If so we can apply a
>>>> update mechanism for Harmony easily.
>>>>
>>>>     Yes I see the new features are beyond the Spec, I think it's OK
>>>> if we want to excel Sun's implementation and attract more customers.
>>>> Do you think the motivation is acceptable? Is there any technical
>>>> fault on these topics?
>>>>
>>>> 2009/3/18 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>:
>>>>> Hello Jimmy,
>>>>> Being brief, I lack your motivation, not technical details.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. I extracted minimal class sets using standard logging to enable
>>>>> different applications on Harmony more than once. For example, this
>>>>> was done for initial analysis of FreeCiv GSoC project. Why one would
>>>>> need a tool?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Eclipse and many other tools have automatic string extractors for
>>>>> further localization. I believe you cannot miss all these
>>>>> //$NON-NLS-1$ comments in the code. Your proposal lacks explanation
>>>>> why other open source tools do not fit.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. I think that before one develops a Harmony updater, a research is
>>>>> to be conducted why existing updaters cannot be adopted. Yes, I truly
>>>>> believe that an updater is a separate project unless it complies with
>>>>> web start specification or OSGi updater specification. For OSGi, one
>>>>> should research if OSGi code can be simply adopted instead of
>>>>> rewritten.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. I expect some words about isolation and OPEN component management
>>>>> as a motivation for multi-vm. IMHO, this task, if done correctly, is
>>>>> impossible for a student.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/3/18 Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Thanks Alexei for your suggestion! Sorry maybe I make the
>>>>>> abstract on the wiki too short to be understandable, I will enrich
the
>>>>>> information of the project motivation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     The translation tools as I mentioned there, was not focus on
the
>>>>>> translation(as we know there's so many translation tools) but the
>>>>>> automatic fetching/injecting mechanism of the open source project
>>>>>> localizable messages. The first motivation was that we Harmony Project
>>>>>> lack those messages compared to Sun's implementation thus was not
>>>>>> friendly to our users. However think deeper we see many open source
>>>>>> projects suffer the similar problem. So the tools was planned to
>>>>>> automatically help Harmony the message with this tool, what's more,
>>>>>> may help some other open source project, especially java projects.
So
>>>>>> I believe this is still closely related to Harmony and is a
>>>>>> requirement of the project(not sure if it should be titled with
>>>>>> "Harmony-tool-5"?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     The other projects are similar, comes from the requirement
of
>>>>>> harmony project and customers requirements. Currently the Harmony
>>>>>> project lack a automatic updater, NSIS offer only windows installation
>>>>>> tool. The basic idea was simple, create a version checker/updater
for
>>>>>> Harmony. The smallest classes selector focus on customized-harmony-jre
>>>>>> which may be friendly to customer usage, to find the classes with
>>>>>> -verbose was easy(but still may not be enough, as we don't really
know
>>>>>> if the current set cover all classes, maybe some classes will be
only
>>>>>> load at some special case), but the problem we want to solve is the
>>>>>> automatic select/build/test/packet for customer application with
a
>>>>>> full but smallest JRE, which may be valuable to customer (e.g, eclipse
>>>>>> does not need to customize our jre with much effort).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     I don't think they can be called as "new open source project",
>>>>>> just some tool set for harmony. What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     There's another thought, we may enable Apache Harmony JDK with
>>>>>> OSGi feature. Yes it was beyond the spec, however it seems valuable
if
>>>>>> we find out a light way, at least we see Harmony modules are already
>>>>>> bundled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/3/17 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>> I like GSoC tasks from Sean and Andrew.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jimmy,
>>>>>>> Can you provide a sort of analysis of your tasks? Are there any
open
>>>>>>> source automatic translation tools? How a web updater relates
to NSIS
>>>>>>> and Java WebStart? Is there any relation between your multi-vm
and
>>>>>>> isolation API? What is in a smallest class set except -verbose:class?
>>>>>>> Please, provide more motivation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As one of Apache gurus said, "You want start a new open source
project? Don't."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Jimmy,Jing Lv <firepure@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>    I've added 4 proposal there. Looking for discussions/suggestions/comments
:)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2009/3/16 Sian January <sianjanuary@googlemail.com>:
>>>>>>>>> Just wanted to encourage people to write their ideas
up on the Wiki -
>>>>>>>>> only Oliver has done it so far and there is a deadline.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2009/3/12 Andrew Cornwall <andrew.pack200@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>> Is there any desire to extend VMTT?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  - add a real assembly format (jsr :label or something
like that, instead of
>>>>>>>>>> jsr -11.) (Does jasm do this, and if so could we
use their format?)
>>>>>>>>>>  - add flexibility for bad classes
>>>>>>>>>>    - specifying the padding for tableswitch/lookupswitch
>>>>>>>>>>    - allow double/long constantpool entries without
subsequent constant
>>>>>>>>>> pool entry
>>>>>>>>>>    - mixed asm and bin in methods
>>>>>>>>>>    - allow insertion of binary data at other places
(eg constant pool)
>>>>>>>>>>  - fix bugs
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>    Andrew Jr.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Xiao-Feng Li <xiaofeng.li@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Egor Pasko <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> > On the 0x56A day of Apache Harmony Xiao-Feng
Li wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Egor
Pasko <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> On the 0x56A day of Apache Harmony
Xiao-Feng Li wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> This is interesting. Project
ideas related to this include:
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> 1. Make Apache Harmony support
Google Android applications. (Android
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> on Harmony should be much faster
with the much more powerful JIT and
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> GC).
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> Do you mean replacing Dalvik on
top of the Android stack or making a
>>>>>>>>>>> >>> system that works on a common desktop?
>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>> >> Something like that... :)  At the moment
I prefer the second approach:
>>>>>>>>>>> >> to make Harmony ready for Android applications
on desktop. The first
>>>>>>>>>>> >> approach probably should be a project
of Google Android.
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > sounds like a nice idea :) though I cannot
imagine how much work is
>>>>>>>>>>> > required to make this happen..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, there are lots of work in it. Well only
when somebody really
>>>>>>>>>>> starts thinking about it,  can we gradually
get some good solution. To
>>>>>>>>>>> replace Dalvik with Harmony in Android stack
might be easier. In any
>>>>>>>>>>> case, it requires to run Android on top of a
desktop OS, with full
>>>>>>>>>>> libc and utils, because that's Harmony needs.
That's why I have the
>>>>>>>>>>> second project idea, to reduce Harmony into a
very concise version
>>>>>>>>>>> that requires only minimum OS supports, as minimum
as Android
>>>>>>>>>>> requires. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> xiaofeng
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>>>>> > Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Managed Runtime Technology Center, Intel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Unless stated otherwise above:
>>>>>>>>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and
Wales with number 741598.
>>>>>>>>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth,
Hampshire PO6 3AU
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> С уважением,
>>>>>>> Алексей Федотов,
>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> С уважением,
>>>>> Алексей Федотов,
>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards!
>>>>
>>>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>>>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> С уважением,
>>> Алексей Федотов,
>>> http://people.apache.org/~aaf/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best Regards!
>>
>> Jimmy, Jing Lv
>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Unless stated otherwise above:
> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598.
> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
>



-- 

Best Regards!

Jimmy, Jing Lv
China Software Development Lab, IBM

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