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From "Sean Qiu" <sean.xx....@gmail.com>
Subject Re: harmony class libs and GNU Classpath
Date Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:28:20 GMT
2008/9/13 Andrew John Hughes <gnu_andrew@member.fsf.org>:
> 2008/9/12 Sean Qiu <sean.xx.qiu@gmail.com>:
>> 2008/9/12 Anders Kristensen <andersk@cisco.com>:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm new to the Harmony project and was wondering about the relationship
>>> between Harmony and the GNU Classpath project, e.g.:
>>>  - How much (if anything) of the Harmony class libraries come from the GNU
>>> Classpath project?
>>
>> None,  Harmony is delivered with Apache License V2 [1], while GNU
>> Classpath is delivered with GPL.
>> These two licenses are incompatible, so they can't adopt each other's
>> code at all.
>>
>
> Wrong.  GNU Classpath is licensed under the more liberal GPLv2 +
> Classpath exception.
>
> 'As a special exception, the copyright holders of this library give
> you
> permission to link this library with independent modules to produce an
> executable, regardless of the license terms of these independent
> modules, and to copy and distribute the resulting executable under
> terms of your choice, provided that you also meet, for each linked
> independent module, the terms and conditions of the license of that
> module.  An independent module is a module which is not derived from
> or based on this library.  If you modify this library, you may extend
> this exception to your version of the library, but you are not
> obligated to do so.  If you do not wish to do so, delete this
> exception statement from your version.'
>

Yes, I forget to mention this exception situation.
Thank you for point it out.

And you remind me of this blog.
http://blogs.sun.com/dagastine/entry/apache_harmony_thanks_for_the
So yes, Open JDK can include Harmony code according to this exception.

But I don't think there are any exceptions mentioned that we can
include any GPL code.
Correct me again, if i was wrong :)

> IANAL, so I will not comment any more on their respective
> compatibility, suffice to say that
> I think it would have been possible, given time and effort from those involved.
>
> There was much talk about collaboration between the two projects when
> Harmony started,
> but problems arose.  See the mailing list archives for the details,
> but from my perspective
> I don't believe the new Harmony project did much to engender a good
> relationship with the
> existing GNU Classpath project
>
>>>  - Do the two efforts continue in parallel or is one emerging as being more
>>> likely to flourish and attract future development?
>>
>> I don't familiar with GNU Classpath, but I know Harmony gradually
>> becomes mature.
>> Harmony has clear high level roadmap and detailed close goals [2].
>> Harmony has a active community which comprises of active committers
>> and contributors [3].
>>
>
> OpenJDK is likely to attract the most future development.

Maybe :)
But I hope Harmony to be as popular as OpenJDK.

> Most former
> GNU Classpath
> hackers now work on this, under the IcedTea banner.  Some GNU
> Classpath development
> continues; there should be a 0.98 release soon, which will form part
> of GCJ 4.4 as well.
>
> I definitely think there still should be an independent (i.e. non Sun)
> implementation of the JDK,
> if just to prove it's possible.  It's possible to take a view of
> OpenJDK as being an attempt by Sun
> to slow such a development; while their RI has been released under the
> GPLv2 + Classpath exception (thus
> solving the problem of a Free complete JDK), the TCK and the standards
> process remains closed.
>
>>>  - If they're both active, which one is more complete?
>>
>> You can get the api diff from here[4], though the data may be out-of-data.
>> Harmony has been improved quite a lot during this period.
>>
>
> The GNU Classpath data here is also outdated.  Please refer to the comparisons
> on the front page of our website:
> http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath which are
> live and updated multiple times daily.
>
>> What's more, Harmony has a virtual machine implementation as well
>> which is called DRLVM [5].
>> And Harmony classlib could be integrated with IBM VM or  Jrockit VM.
>>
>
> GNU Classpath arose in the late 1990s through a merging of existing
> class library
> efforts in VMs such as GCJ and Kaffe, to become solely a class library project
> used by multiple VMs.  One of the advantages of GNU Classpath over the other two
> is a more proven VM interface as a result.  It supports GCJ (AOT compilation),
> JikesRVM (Java-based), JamVM, Kaffe, CACAO and IKVM.net (.NET-based)
> among others
> and has a clear well-specified Java-based interface.  All those
> mentioned are Free software.
> Note that the latter two now use OpenJDK (CACAO as well as GNU
> Classpath, IKVM.net instead of).
>

Thank you for your explanation.

> For Harmony, your list only includes two Free VMs: DRLVM (which it was
> developed for)
> and JikesRVM, support for which is still nascent.  Both IBM's and
> JRockIt are proprietary.
>
>>
>> Correct me if I am wrong :)
>>
>
> I think I did, where you were ;)
>

Here I am :)
I should say thank you for your detailed information about GNU Classpath.

>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Anders
>>>
>>
>> [1] http://harmony.apache.org/license.html
>> [2] http://harmony.apache.org/roadmap.html
>> [3] http://harmony.apache.org/contributors.html
>> [4] http://www.kaffe.org/~stuart/japi/htmlout/
>> [5] http://harmony.apache.org/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
>> --
>> Best Regards
>> Sean, Xiao Xia Qiu
>>
>> China Software Development Lab, IBM
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew :-)
>
> Support Free Java!
> Contribute to GNU Classpath and the OpenJDK
> http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath
> http://openjdk.java.net
>
> PGP Key: 94EFD9D8 (http://subkeys.pgp.net)
> Fingerprint: F8EF F1EA 401E 2E60 15FA 7927 142C 2591 94EF D9D8
>



-- 
Best Regards
Sean, Xiao Xia Qiu

China Software Development Lab, IBM

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