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From Gregory Shimansky <gshiman...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [general] icu or apr-iconv, which coding library is better?
Date Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:51:14 GMT
Nathan Beyer said the following on 16.04.2008 6:00:
> I think we need more consensus on this. Is everyone in agreement about
> dumping log4cxx? Is this patch the appropriate replacement?

+1 from me on removing log4cxx.

> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 5:40 AM, Alexei Fedotov
> <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Nathan,
>>  Could you please tell if you still have concerns about HARMONY-5692?
>>
>>  Thanks, Alexei
>>
>>  On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:26 AM, Alexei Fedotov
>>
>>
>> <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  > Hello Nathan,
>>  >  Thanks for your tough questions.
>>  >  1.
>>  >  I'm sorry for using "red herring". I honestly believe that having two
>>  >  charset coding libraries is overkill and a good reason to throw one of
>>  >  them away.
>>  >
>>  >  2.
>>  >  Here is a JNI specification [1]. Please, check a table below
>>  >  JNI_CreateJavaVM description. It describes how VM logging is
>>  >  initialized. This was not implemented in DRLVM, and is implemented in
>>  >  [2].
>>  >
>>  >  3.
>>  >  A big chunk of removed functionality is logging into separate files.
>>  >  To my perception, this is not a frequent use case. The original reason
>>  >  why original DRLVM engineers attached log4cxx to my original C/C++
>>  >  DRLVM logger was our attempt to achieve "Apache synergy".
>>  >
>>  >  4.
>>  >  You asked for an anecdotal proof of the fact why smaller executables
>>  >  may run faster. I have just invented one: smaller executables better
>>  >  fit into a processor cache, produce less cache misses and hence
>>  >  decrease a bus load. For a particular case this should be measured,
>>  >  and I don't have solid data yet.
>>  >
>>  >  5.
>>  >  There is one more argument which actually forced me to start thinking
>>  >  into this direction: my shmmap component (a hybrid of shm and mmap)
>>  >  was originally developed as a part of aprutil (because it is based on
>>  >  apr_shm and apr_mmap). We already have four porting libraries: port,
>>  >  portlib, apr and aprutil in Harmony. Removing one which is not tightly
>>  >  coupled with other parts make it easier for people like me to decide
>>  >  where it is natural to place our hand-made components.
>>  >
>>  >  More questions? Suggestions?
>>  >
>>  >  [1] http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/jni/spec/invocation.html
>>  >  [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-5692
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >  On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Nathan Beyer <nbeyer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  >  > On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 4:17 AM, Alexei Fedotov
>>  >  >
>>  >  > <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  >  >
>>  >  > > Hello Nathan,
>>  >  >  >  Thanks for questions.
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  There are many other places where charset (en/de)coders are used,
but
>>  >  >  >  we use icu4c there.
>>  >  >
>>  >  >  I know, but your original post made it sound like this was the big
>>  >  >  reason for accepting this patch, but charset codec usage was a red
>>  >  >  herring - I really don't like it when people use such tactics. Focus
>>  >  >  on the real issue, please.
>>  >  >
>>  >  >
>>  >  >
>>  >  >  > HARMONY-5692 is a replacement of log4cxx with
>>  >  >  >  custom logger and removing dependent aprutil and apr-iconv which
are
>>  >  >  >  not used any longer after this replacement.
>>  >  >  >    * The replacement decreases
>>  >  >  >  windows_x86_msvc_debug/deploy/jdk/jre/bin/default/harmonyvm.dll
size
>>  >  >  >  from 4079616 to 2961408. This would probably improve a startup
time.
>>  >  >
>>  >  >  Any proof, even anecdotal to this claim?
>>  >  >
>>  >  >
>>  >  >  >    * The custom logger requires less lines of code than a log4cxx
>>  >  >  >  wrapper, hence, is easier to maintain.
>>  >  >  >    * By specification VM logging should be done using provided
>>  >  >  >  vfprintf. C++ logger adds two layers of conversion. vfprintf layer
wan
>>  >  >  >  not implemented, and implementing it would increase a number of
>>  >  >  >  wrappers for log4cxx.
>>  >  >
>>  >  >  Can you point to this bit of the specification? I don't understand the
>>  >  >  last bit of what you're claiming. There's a wrapper that doesn't
>>  >  >  exist, but needs to?
>>  >  >
>>  >  >
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  Please, let me know if these arguments are enough for log4cxx
being removed.
>>  >  >
>>  >  >  No, they aren't for me. The original DRLVM engineers used log4xx for
a
>>  >  >  reason, what functionality are we giving up?
>>  >  >
>>  >  >
>>  >  >
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  Note, apr itself remains, and it is pretty good piece of code
to my
>>  >  >  >  perception. I do not intend to invent pools or OS call wrappers.
We
>>  >  >  >  throw away the staff guys from apr does not allow to put into
their
>>  >  >  >  main module. :-)
>>  >  >  >  Thanks.
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Nathan Beyer <nbeyer@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>  >  >  >  > Huh? This post doesn't sound like anything in HARMONY-5692.
We need
>>  >  >  >  >  clear somethings up first.
>>  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >  1. apr-iconv is in the build as a dependency of log4cxx
>>  >  >  >  >  2. there is no use of apr-iconv for charset encoding/decoding
>>  >  >  >  >  3. HARMONY-5692, AFAIU is replacement of log4cxx with custom
logger
>>  >  >  >  >  implementation to reduce the build time
>>  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >  What's the value of replacing log4cxx with a custom logger?
Reducing
>>  >  >  >  >  the build time isn't enough for me - there have to be other
ways to
>>  >  >  >  >  accomplish that without sub-system replacement.
>>  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >  -Nathan
>>  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >  On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:37 PM, Alexei Fedotov
>>  >  >  >  >  <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  >  >  >  >  > Hello,
>>  >  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >  >  One may notice that both icu and apr-iconv are currently
used to build
>>  >  >  >  >  >  Harmony HDK. Both libraries address charset encoding
and decoding.
>>  >  >  >  >  >  Should we keep both of them or try to use the only
one?
>>  >  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >  >  HARMONY-5692 [1] contains one possible "compilable"
answer to this
>>  >  >  >  >  >  question and related reasoning. Alexey Varlamov and
Tim suggested
>>  >  >  >  >  >  discussing the matters on dev@ list, so I created
this thread on the
>>  >  >  >  >  >  subject. You are welcome to share your opinion about
the libraries
>>  >  >  >  >  >  Harmony depends on, the patch from [2], my arguments
defending the
>>  >  >  >  >  >  patch, and further directions here.
>>  >  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >  >  --
>>  >  >  >  >  >  With best regards,
>>  >  >  >  >  >  Alexei
>>  >  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >  >  [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-5692
>>  >  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >  >  --
>>  >  >  >  With best regards,
>>  >  >  >  Alexei
>>  >  >  >
>>  >  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >  --
>>  >  With best regards,
>>  >  Alexei
>>  >
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  With best regards,
>>  Alexei
>>


-- 
Gregory


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