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From "Johnny Kewl" <j...@kewlstuff.co.za>
Subject Re: JRE Lite
Date Tue, 04 Mar 2008 12:19:45 GMT

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Egor Pasko" <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
To: <dev@harmony.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: JRE Lite

> On the 0x3FD day of Apache Harmony Johnny Kewl wrote:
>> [snip]
>> >> I think size and speed tradeoffs, and the intelligence required will
>> >> make it really
>> >> interesting... if we get there a lot of fun.
>> >
>> > How about a bit of somewhat easier stuff?
>> >
>> > shell> java-intaller install --all-deps swing
>> >
>> > (where, 'swing' is the package name)
>> >
>> > I.e. get basic JVM, then control which packages to install by hand. No
>> > pain. The only weird thing is that to deliver a Java app one must
>> > provide it with list of dependencies. But this is rather common and
>> > convenient in open source world.
>> A JRE is already selecting what an application needs to run, and does
>> it a lot better than a human.
> This is arguable. Why then Linux packages are not downloade
> automatically when you issue unexisting commands on your Linux box?
> Maybe because packages sometimes need to be configured before you run
> something on top of them.
> Another point, humans are very intelligent to control things that
> humans want. For example, I _want_ to know what is installed on my
> system. And many people are like me))
> Another use-case, you might want to duplicate a set of packages from
> box A to box B. You just want to damn install the packabes and not
> make Java damn slow on the first run on box B. Applications should be
> packages too, aligned with philosophy of JPackage project.
> This is really interesting. Because it allows to make
> _custom_distributions_ on top of Java and extend them on as-needed
> basis.

I see where you coming from, yes the user would now have a choice, if they a 
microsoft user... ha ha, they will click
on it and it starts... they dont understand why, but it just starts and 
works. They dont even have to know what Java is.
Then because JRELite (a paradox) would now also have thousands of tools on a 
server, yes there could be a
debian type apt-get package that lets an expert choose and precofigure all 
their tools, thus allowing off server
installation as well. JRELite would make java feel a lot like a linux dist 
in some ways.
... but if the user is a moron... it just works anyway ;)

>> An application actually uses much less than its "bundle".
>> Also as a developer you do not know what is on the users machine 
>> already....
>> If the last application used Swing... this application will not need
>> to get it again ;)
>> Its a very simple concept actually... if you see the whole JRE as 100%
>> I think most applications on use 10%
>> Heavy applications 60%
>> But with every run, the usage drops off exponentially...
>> If app A  used 20% when it runs on its own.
>> And another app B uses 25% when it runs on its own.
>> Then first App run = 20%
>> Second App run 5%
>> A developer cant control that because the JRE is a learning system....
>> But it also means this... have you ever wondered why multimedia and
>> video are not packed with Java...
>> Its because if it not main stream or popular... Java has a thud factor
>> problem.
>> In a scheme like this... the JRE engine could be a 1000 gigs...
>> It doesnt matter, the app only uses what it needs.... and now...
>> USB support...
>> Video Editing, Streaming...
>> Companies that woudnt even look at Java would add in Flash players...
>> Medical companies could add in special Hospital stuff.... the API
>> would be endless...
>> Java just for business is boring... this would make a Java for the 
>> world...
>> The PANIC Harmony sub-project would be the busiest open source project
>> on the web... I think ;)
>> I think its a way to turn the guru's loose and let them change the
>> world :)... make it a whole lot better.
>> So make java deliverable.... and the sun will really shine ;)
> [snip]
> -- 
> Egor Pasko

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