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Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:37:56 +0100
From: Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>
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To: dev@harmony.apache.org
Subject: Re: [general] jre bundle size
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Egor Pasko wrote:
> On the 0x372 day of Apache Harmony Spark Shen wrote:
>> 2007/10/17, Sean Qiu <sean.xx.qiu@gmail.com>:
>>> I suggest we maintain our classlib modules (jar) in a central repository.
>>> So we can just get a kernel bundle, and it will download the required
>>> jars.
>>
>> +1 for kernel bundle.
>>
>> We can add options for the default build task. Using these options to
>> determine whether
>> to include source code ,debug information etc.
>>
>> And what about  and a new build target 'build-core' for only those kernel
>> bundles necessary
>> to start JRE.
> 
> Sorry, guys:
> -1
> 
> First of all, -1 to removing debug information. When you need it, it
> is time when you really need it and you are really stuck and blaming
> your JRE for various aspects if debug info is not there.
> 
> Secondly, to the kernel bundle:
> 
> 1. how many people want to download just 1/3 of the JRE and then keep
>    looking of the damn slow download when running some app? This would
>    be an unpleasant surprize because people just did not ask you to go
>    web. Looks suspicious, slow and ugly. I do not like unpleasant
>    surpizes.
> 
> 2. it is a lot of work. We will need to identify places that can be
>    stripped, tweak classloader to download stuff instead of throwing
>    complains. Ideally, we will need to measure user experience: how
>    many users did not want to download more, and what we can do to
>    increase the number of users? Seems pretty hard. So, unless
>    somebody has a good design in their mind, I would object to this
>    effort. And if they have, please, publish the design on wiki.
> 
> 3. how about permissions? anyone who runs a Java app is sometimes
>    asked for a root password to update the JRE? not very convenient
> 
> 4. I believe Linux package managers would anyway stick to the full
>    package (otherwize it turns to a nightmare of permissions, security
>    issues and such). So, we won't get any lovers of this stuff in the
>    Linux community, which is completely not impressing.
> 
> Slow, ugly, surprizing unpleasantly, vulnerable to attacks. gosh.
> 
> If Sun likes that, just let them have fun.

I think you are being a bit harsh Egor.  I have to admit that this is
not where I would invest my time because I think there is plenty of
low-hanging fruit to be picked for space savings in the current code,
and that producing a downloadable version is not going to solve that
problem.   However, if that is Xiao-Feng / Sean's itch then I'd let them
go at it.

It would have to be available as an option since I also agree that there
are many occasions when people just want the whole thing.

Regards,
Tim