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From "Alexei Fedotov" <alexei.fedo...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [general] jre bundle size
Date Wed, 17 Oct 2007 11:15:12 GMT
> Xiao-Feng, I like the idea of EIOffice+Harmony to have a limited
> Harmony bundle, no problem.

Please, no more surprising Internet downloads for MS office
applications. Sorry, I meant EI.
:-)


On 17 Oct 2007 15:07:54 +0400, Egor Pasko <egor.pasko@gmail.com> wrote:
> On the 0x372 day of Apache Harmony Tim Ellison wrote:
> > Egor Pasko wrote:
> > > On the 0x372 day of Apache Harmony Spark Shen wrote:
> > >> 2007/10/17, Sean Qiu <sean.xx.qiu@gmail.com>:
> > >>> I suggest we maintain our classlib modules (jar) in a central repository.
> > >>> So we can just get a kernel bundle, and it will download the required
> > >>> jars.
> > >>
> > >> +1 for kernel bundle.
> > >>
> > >> We can add options for the default build task. Using these options to
> > >> determine whether
> > >> to include source code ,debug information etc.
> > >>
> > >> And what about  and a new build target 'build-core' for only those kernel
> > >> bundles necessary
> > >> to start JRE.
> > >
> > > Sorry, guys:
> > > -1
> > >
> > > First of all, -1 to removing debug information. When you need it, it
> > > is time when you really need it and you are really stuck and blaming
> > > your JRE for various aspects if debug info is not there.
> > >
> > > Secondly, to the kernel bundle:
> > >
> > > 1. how many people want to download just 1/3 of the JRE and then keep
> > >    looking of the damn slow download when running some app? This would
> > >    be an unpleasant surprize because people just did not ask you to go
> > >    web. Looks suspicious, slow and ugly. I do not like unpleasant
> > >    surpizes.
> > >
> > > 2. it is a lot of work. We will need to identify places that can be
> > >    stripped, tweak classloader to download stuff instead of throwing
> > >    complains. Ideally, we will need to measure user experience: how
> > >    many users did not want to download more, and what we can do to
> > >    increase the number of users? Seems pretty hard. So, unless
> > >    somebody has a good design in their mind, I would object to this
> > >    effort. And if they have, please, publish the design on wiki.
> > >
> > > 3. how about permissions? anyone who runs a Java app is sometimes
> > >    asked for a root password to update the JRE? not very convenient
> > >
> > > 4. I believe Linux package managers would anyway stick to the full
> > >    package (otherwize it turns to a nightmare of permissions, security
> > >    issues and such). So, we won't get any lovers of this stuff in the
> > >    Linux community, which is completely not impressing.
> > >
> > > Slow, ugly, surprizing unpleasantly, vulnerable to attacks. gosh.
> > >
> > > If Sun likes that, just let them have fun.
> >
> > I think you are being a bit harsh Egor.  I have to admit that this is
> > not where I would invest my time because I think there is plenty of
> > low-hanging fruit to be picked for space savings in the current code,
> > and that producing a downloadable version is not going to solve that
> > problem.   However, if that is Xiao-Feng / Sean's itch then I'd let them
> > go at it.
> >
> > It would have to be available as an option since I also agree that there
> > are many occasions when people just want the whole thing.
>
> +1 to keep the whole thing at least as an option
>
> Sorry for the tone.. did not want to shout so loudly, just tried to
> write down all reasons and think about conscequences aloud so that if
> Xiao-Feng & Sean itch, they won't get surprized :)
>
> But, anyway, my dislike of self-downloadable stuff is still there.
>
> On the src stuff. Yes, really, I talked on JDK. But now just curious,
> don't people use JRE+Eclipse often? Is there a reason not to? (except
> debug and sources) Sorry, I just have no idea about numbers.
>
> I computed the total size of src jars in the last snapshot: 8.5M, at
> and 43M is the size of the snapshot. So, we can reduce the bundle
> size by 20%. Well, seems reasonable. (In case no developers use JRE)
>
> On the debug info stuff: I think, we should keep it, agreed to
> Tim. Maybe, there is a reason to have all sources separately in case a
> user decided to develop, having JRE is downloaded, just not to fetch
> the whole JDK.
>
> Xiao-Feng, I like the idea of EIOffice+Harmony to have a limited
> Harmony bundle, no problem. And, overall, if you like all the
> complications I tried to list above, I won't shout against (given that
> the full non-self-downloading bundle for JRE with debug info is there
> as an option, and full non-self-downloading JDK too, of course)
>
> --
> Egor Pasko
>
>


-- 
With best regards,
Alexei,
ESSD, Intel

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