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From "Alexei Fedotov" <alexei.fedo...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [doc][user experience] minor improvements to website navigation and content
Date Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:42:20 GMT
Nadya,
I'm speaking about a starting page. In other words, what a user gets
when he accesses http://harmony.apache.org.

Many arguments in this thread are tainted with excessive Apache
knowledge: for example, people outside Apache don't know about JIRA
issues - they still refer to program defects as bugs.

If we accepted the point that the starting page is for a newbie, then
no longer the most popular argument from this thread would work: *I*
want to have the following on the first page.

When I think of the project page I recall the first time I have
visited Ant page to download the tool and start using it. At that
moment Ant start page was perfect - it contained only one "Download"
link and only one "Documentation" link. I never visited other links.

Why I want to be friendly to a newbie, and not Salikh or Egor? Salikh
and Egor could bookmark the pages they like, such as documentation
map. A confused newbie just leaves for another alternative and we
loose a potential contributor (or at least a bug from him).

If we want to address our needs, this could be done at
http://harmony.apache.org/dev/. We can put there latest CruiseControl
news and hot JIRA issues.

I suggest taking decision about target audience first, and only then
decide what to put on the first page.

I've just tried to show the first pages of different Apache projects
to my little daughter crawling around. I expected to compare "Wow"
effect, but she quickly lost any interest and decided to go to bed
finally.

Any community exists while it is able to reproduce itself. I believe
having something cool for students on the right pane of the first
page, such as announcement of VM coding contest, invitation to Harmony
summer camp, or introductory flash movie would be great. :-)


On 12/12/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
> Alexei,
> I am afraid I don't quite follow you. Are you speaking about the menu or
> the  starting page?
>
> Cheers,
> Nadya
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:alexei.fedotov@gmail.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:11 PM
> >To: dev@harmony.apache.org
> >Subject: Re: [doc][user experience] minor improvements to website
> >navigation and content
> >
> >Folks,
> >Let's decide on general things first.
> >
> > * Who is the main customer of the first page. I assume he is a
> >newcomer who doesn't know what DRL of build-test framework mean.
> >
> >For a newcomer any specifc abbreviation such as DRLVM or build-test
> >framework just leads to a confusion. If I'm a user, I usually do the
> >following:
> > * download the product
> > * check license
> > * ask questions on dev@ list if the question is not answered in FAQ
> >or a user guide
> > * file a bug if somethings doesn't work (issue is much less specific
> >qord for that)
> >
> >If I'm a developer, I just need to read documentation first. If I
> >don't do this, and start contributing, than probably it won't be a
> >high quality contribution.
> >
> >That's all I suggest to put to the first page. More information IMHO
> >would just make a newcomer life more complex, so he probably won't
> >come to our web site next time.
> >
> >
> >On 12 Dec 2006 20:28:33 +0600, Egor Pasko <egor.pasko@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On the 0x23D day of Apache Harmony Salikh Zakirov wrote:
> >> > Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
> >> > > Hi,
> >> > > More responses below.
> >> >
> >> > Nadya, could you please be more careful with quoting?
> >> > Broken quotation lines make it hard to understand who wrote what.
> >> >
> >> > >> (-) Renaming "Mailing lists" -> "Subscribe" ("subscribe" is
less
> >> > >> informative)
> >> > > -1 disagree. I tried to make this group of links more visitor-
> >oriented,
> >> > > add simple typical action verbs. It seems more important than the
> >> > > abstract "lists" group.
> >> >
> >> > I do not oppose using verbs. What I do oppose is reducing the
> amount of
> >> > information transferred by the titles.
> >> > "Subscribe to mailing list" would sound good to me.
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> > Short "subscribe" does not explain what do you subscribe to:
> >> > discussion, project announcements, product offers? Or maybe even
> online
> >support
> >> > contract?
> >> >
> >> > >> (-) The section "In the project" has no clearly defined subject
> and
> >> > >> looks like a heap of links randomly collected together.
> >> > > 0. hesitant. I don't know - I've tried to group the links for
> those
> >> > > already in the project. The problem with some pages there -
> they're
> >not
> >> > > as good as they should be. Suggestions welcome.
> >> >
> >> > The obvious suggestion would be keep old classification "Community"
> and
> >> > "Development". These section titles explained link grouping well.
> >> > If the new titles are not as good as we want it to be, why change
> at
> >all?
> >>
> >> I do not like synthetic grouping either
> >>
> >> > >> (-) Moving "Downloads" from "General" section to "Get involved"
> >> > >> section. Most of our users are not going to be involved. They
> would
> >> > >> just want to download and use the JDK/JRE.
> >> > > 0. reluctant. I'd prefer to keep General focused on the project,
> on
> >> > > people and policy and goals. And I am not sure we have too many
> users
> >> > > who want the JDK and won't be involved at all :)
> >> >
> >> > _Downloading_ is not related to _getting involved_.
> >> > What I would like to see in the navigation pane is logical clarity,
> >> > so that I need not scan link titles after reading the section title
> >> > and deciding that it has nothing to do with my need.
> >> >
> >> > If we put "download" link into "getting involved" section, I would
> miss
> >> > this link on the first glance, because I do not perceive them as
> >related.
> >> > Putting "download" link to "general" section would solve this
> problem
> >for me.
> >>
> >> Does not matter for me. Should be on the first page, that's true. I
> >> usually search "Download" on unknown websites by typing :)
> >>
> >> > >> (-) Renaming navigation subsection "Community" -> "Get
> involved". It
> >> > >> now duplicates with the page title, and does not provide a
> logical
> >> > >> explanation of what links are listed in the section.
> >> > >> "Community" was explaining the group of links better.
> >> >
> >> > > 0. hesitant. Community is more like people inside, and get
> involved
> >is
> >> > > more like resources for people outside. Just my opinion.
> >> >
> >> > I do not feel strongly about this point. Duplicated title does not
> look
> >nice
> >> > though.
> >>
> >> hm. Nadya, both developers and users should be considered as
> >> "inside". These two armies form the community. Separation seems like
> >> not the spirit of opensource (imho)
> >>
> >> > One more idea: change the "Subcomponents" section name to
> >"Documentation", and
> >> > move all other documentation related links there, like this:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Documentation
> >> >
> >> > * Class library
> >> > * DRLVM
> >> > * Build-test framework
> >> > * Harmony Development Kit
> >> > * Detailed documentation map
> >>
> >> good idea!
> >>
> >> --
> >> Egor Pasko
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >With best regards,
> >Alexei,
> >ESSD, Intel
>


-- 
With best regards,
Alexei,
ESSD, Intel

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