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From "Morozova, Nadezhda" <nadezhda.moroz...@intel.com>
Subject Re: [doc][user experience] minor improvements to website navigation and content
Date Thu, 14 Dec 2006 18:32:14 GMT
Hi all,
I've updated the sandbox a bit = a less revolutionary menu, and a
sitemap with some more fixes to generic files. 
http://people.apache.org/~nadinem/docs/ 

The changes for sitemap and others are taken from
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2688 

I feel the sitemap needs improvement, but it seems a good starting
point. 

Cheers, 
Nadya
 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 1:54 PM
>To: dev@harmony.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][user experience] minor improvements to website
>navigation and content
>
>On the 0x23E day of Apache Harmony Alexei Fedotov wrote:
>> Nadya,
>> I'm speaking about a starting page. In other words, what a user gets
>> when he accesses http://harmony.apache.org.
>>
>> Many arguments in this thread are tainted with excessive Apache
>> knowledge: for example, people outside Apache don't know about JIRA
>> issues - they still refer to program defects as bugs.
>>
>> If we accepted the point that the starting page is for a newbie, then
>> no longer the most popular argument from this thread would work: *I*
>> want to have the following on the first page.
>>
>> When I think of the project page I recall the first time I have
>> visited Ant page to download the tool and start using it. At that
>> moment Ant start page was perfect - it contained only one "Download"
>> link and only one "Documentation" link. I never visited other links.
>>
>> Why I want to be friendly to a newbie, and not Salikh or Egor? Salikh
>> and Egor could bookmark the pages they like, such as documentation
>> map. A confused newbie just leaves for another alternative and we
>> loose a potential contributor (or at least a bug from him).
>
>* Download
>* Documentation
>* Site Map
>How about three links then?
>
>> If we want to address our needs, this could be done at
>> http://harmony.apache.org/dev/. We can put there latest CruiseControl
>> news and hot JIRA issues.
>>
>> I suggest taking decision about target audience first, and only then
>> decide what to put on the first page.
>>
>> I've just tried to show the first pages of different Apache projects
>> to my little daughter crawling around. I expected to compare "Wow"
>> effect, but she quickly lost any interest and decided to go to bed
>> finally.
>>
>> Any community exists while it is able to reproduce itself. I believe
>> having something cool for students on the right pane of the first
>> page, such as announcement of VM coding contest, invitation to
Harmony
>> summer camp, or introductory flash movie would be great. :-)
>
>yeah. a lot of happy faces of students developing DRLVM JIT internals
>during winter camp in Siberia, that's what we definitely need on the
>right pane.
>
>What can attract more than dev tasks on Harmony? I dunno.
>
>> On 12/12/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
>> > Alexei,
>> > I am afraid I don't quite follow you. Are you speaking about the
menu
>or
>> > the  starting page?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Nadya
>> >
>> >
>> > >-----Original Message-----
>> > >From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:alexei.fedotov@gmail.com]
>> > >Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:11 PM
>> > >To: dev@harmony.apache.org
>> > >Subject: Re: [doc][user experience] minor improvements to website
>> > >navigation and content
>> > >
>> > >Folks,
>> > >Let's decide on general things first.
>> > >
>> > > * Who is the main customer of the first page. I assume he is a
>> > >newcomer who doesn't know what DRL of build-test framework mean.
>> > >
>> > >For a newcomer any specifc abbreviation such as DRLVM or
build-test
>> > >framework just leads to a confusion. If I'm a user, I usually do
the
>> > >following:
>> > > * download the product
>> > > * check license
>> > > * ask questions on dev@ list if the question is not answered in
FAQ
>> > >or a user guide
>> > > * file a bug if somethings doesn't work (issue is much less
specific
>> > >qord for that)
>> > >
>> > >If I'm a developer, I just need to read documentation first. If I
>> > >don't do this, and start contributing, than probably it won't be a
>> > >high quality contribution.
>> > >
>> > >That's all I suggest to put to the first page. More information
IMHO
>> > >would just make a newcomer life more complex, so he probably won't
>> > >come to our web site next time.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >On 12 Dec 2006 20:28:33 +0600, Egor Pasko <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> > >> On the 0x23D day of Apache Harmony Salikh Zakirov wrote:
>> > >> > Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
>> > >> > > Hi,
>> > >> > > More responses below.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Nadya, could you please be more careful with quoting?
>> > >> > Broken quotation lines make it hard to understand who wrote
what.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > >> (-) Renaming "Mailing lists" -> "Subscribe" ("subscribe"
is
>less
>> > >> > >> informative)
>> > >> > > -1 disagree. I tried to make this group of links more
visitor-
>> > >oriented,
>> > >> > > add simple typical action verbs. It seems more important
than
>the
>> > >> > > abstract "lists" group.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > I do not oppose using verbs. What I do oppose is reducing the
>> > amount of
>> > >> > information transferred by the titles.
>> > >> > "Subscribe to mailing list" would sound good to me.
>> > >>
>> > >> +1
>> > >>
>> > >> > Short "subscribe" does not explain what do you subscribe to:
>> > >> > discussion, project announcements, product offers? Or maybe
even
>> > online
>> > >support
>> > >> > contract?
>> > >> >
>> > >> > >> (-) The section "In the project" has no clearly defined
subject
>> > and
>> > >> > >> looks like a heap of links randomly collected together.
>> > >> > > 0. hesitant. I don't know - I've tried to group the links
for
>> > those
>> > >> > > already in the project. The problem with some pages there
-
>> > they're
>> > >not
>> > >> > > as good as they should be. Suggestions welcome.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > The obvious suggestion would be keep old classification
>"Community"
>> > and
>> > >> > "Development". These section titles explained link grouping
well.
>> > >> > If the new titles are not as good as we want it to be, why
change
>> > at
>> > >all?
>> > >>
>> > >> I do not like synthetic grouping either
>> > >>
>> > >> > >> (-) Moving "Downloads" from "General" section to "Get
involved"
>> > >> > >> section. Most of our users are not going to be involved.
They
>> > would
>> > >> > >> just want to download and use the JDK/JRE.
>> > >> > > 0. reluctant. I'd prefer to keep General focused on the
project,
>> > on
>> > >> > > people and policy and goals. And I am not sure we have too
many
>> > users
>> > >> > > who want the JDK and won't be involved at all :)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > _Downloading_ is not related to _getting involved_.
>> > >> > What I would like to see in the navigation pane is logical
>clarity,
>> > >> > so that I need not scan link titles after reading the section
>title
>> > >> > and deciding that it has nothing to do with my need.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > If we put "download" link into "getting involved" section, I
would
>> > miss
>> > >> > this link on the first glance, because I do not perceive them
as
>> > >related.
>> > >> > Putting "download" link to "general" section would solve this
>> > problem
>> > >for me.
>> > >>
>> > >> Does not matter for me. Should be on the first page, that's
true. I
>> > >> usually search "Download" on unknown websites by typing :)
>> > >>
>> > >> > >> (-) Renaming navigation subsection "Community" ->
"Get
>> > involved". It
>> > >> > >> now duplicates with the page title, and does not provide
a
>> > logical
>> > >> > >> explanation of what links are listed in the section.
>> > >> > >> "Community" was explaining the group of links better.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > 0. hesitant. Community is more like people inside, and get
>> > involved
>> > >is
>> > >> > > more like resources for people outside. Just my opinion.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > I do not feel strongly about this point. Duplicated title does
not
>> > look
>> > >nice
>> > >> > though.
>> > >>
>> > >> hm. Nadya, both developers and users should be considered as
>> > >> "inside". These two armies form the community. Separation seems
like
>> > >> not the spirit of opensource (imho)
>> > >>
>> > >> > One more idea: change the "Subcomponents" section name to
>> > >"Documentation", and
>> > >> > move all other documentation related links there, like this:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Documentation
>> > >> >
>> > >> > * Class library
>> > >> > * DRLVM
>> > >> > * Build-test framework
>> > >> > * Harmony Development Kit
>> > >> > * Detailed documentation map
>> > >>
>> > >> good idea!
>> > >>
>> > >> --
>> > >> Egor Pasko
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >--
>> > >With best regards,
>> > >Alexei,
>> > >ESSD, Intel
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> With best regards,
>> Alexei,
>> ESSD, Intel
>>
>
>--
>Egor Pasko

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