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From Egor Pasko <egor.pa...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated
Date Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:35:57 GMT
On the 0x221 day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> OK then for Configuring VM section JIT options proposed by Egor will be
> suitable:
> 
> "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
> "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
> "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
> 
> I'd also add:
> 
> "-Xem:server" - enable dynamic optimization mode tuned for long-running
> server-side applications (default optimization mode is tuned for fast
> start-up and client-side applications)
> "-Xem server_static" - enable static optimization mode tuned for
> long-running server-side applications

I've already put these and more options to [1]. Except
"-Xem:server_static". I think, using options is enough
transparent. What kind of other tutorial-level info do we need? I
cannot find many, sorry.

Once I published an example of .emconf file for JIT bug isolation. We
agreed that it would have been great to put it on the website.  Yes,
that's a kind of tutorial. But it relates more to "Debugging VM and
JIT".

[1] http://wiki.apache.org/harmony/DrlvmCommandLineOptions

> Thanks,
> Pavel
> 
> On 11/14/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
> >
> > Pavel,
> > Thanks for your comments. I'll work through the examples and post an
> > updated patch soon.
> > As for the Configuring VM operation - can we at least have a couple of
> > examples in the form of scenarios or something? The wiki page only gives
> > a reference, an enumeration of available options. Using these might not
> > always be transparent. I know it's tutorial-level info, but why not have
> > it? Giving a show-case of customizing vm to a specific need would be
> > great.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Nadya Morozova
> >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com]
> > >Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:23 AM
> > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> > is
> > >outdated
> > >
> > >Nadya,
> > >
> > >I've looked through your patch. Please see my comments in JIRA:
> > >http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
> > >
> > >> Do you think we can add a link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)?
> > >
> > >I don't think we need it - it is rather info for developers than for
> > users.
> > >
> > >> Any ideas on what to write in Configuring vm operation?
> > >
> > >This section will duplicate the info from the Wiki page. Since we gave
> > a
> > >link to that page in the "overview" we may skip creation of a separate
> > >section here.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Pavel
> > >
> > >
> > >On 11/13/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Successfully added a patch to fix getting Started outdated content to
> > >> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150.
> > >> The patch is not final - need help to add more content. The current
> > >> structure is:
> > >> - overview
> > >> - running an app
> > >> - eclipse-related (now much shorter)
> > >>        -- running an app
> > >>        -- debugging an app
> > >> - configuring vm operation (empty)
> > >>
> > >> Questions: how do you like the current patch? Do you think we can add
> > a
> > >> link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)? Any ideas on what to write
> > in
> > >> Configuring vm operation?
> > >>
> > >> Thank you,
> > >> Nadya Morozova
> > >>
> > >> >-----Original Message-----
> > >> >From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:00 PM
> > >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > >> >outdated
> > >> >
> > >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > >> >> >-----Original Message-----
> > >> >> >From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > >> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
> > >> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> > is
> > >> >> >outdated
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > >> >> >> Ok,
> > >> >> >> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to
> > get
> > >> an
> > >> >> >> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then
> > >> work
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> >> improve it.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >OK, I am "watching" it
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
> > >> how-tos.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >To summarize:
> > >> >> >* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are
> > for
> > >> >> >  eclipse+drlvm page)
> > >> >> >* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of
> > >> >> >  links we have"
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Am I right?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> [Nadya]
> > >> >> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
> > out
> > >> >> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
> > >> >
> > >> >remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
> > law,
> > >> >not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
> > >> >desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
> > >> >
> > >> >> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all
> > >> your
> > >> >> help.
> > >> >
> > >> >u r welcome
> > >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >> Thank you,
> > >> >> >> Nadya Morozova
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> >> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > >> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
> > >> >> >> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> >> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
> > DRL"
> > >> is
> > >> >> >> outdated
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > >> >> >> > Egor,
> > >> >> >> > I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
> > >> perceptions
> > >> >> of
> > >> >> >> > various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial
> > -
> > >> it's
> > >> >> >> more
> > >> >> >> > of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this
> > >> "How
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> >> > write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
> > >> >> >> Command-line
> > >> >> >> > Args Tutorial"?
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> on Wikipedia:
> > >> >> >> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to
> > >> >> >> accomplish
> > >> >> >>   some specific task
> > >> >> >> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created
> > for
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> >>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> yes, I mix those terms :)
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> > As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on
> > >> >> another
> > >> >> >> > page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a
> > >> short
> > >> >> >> > howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common
> > options,
> > >> >> >> solving
> > >> >> >> > typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
> > >> >> >> > Does anybody volunteer to help?
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the
> > >> howto
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> > Thank you,
> > >> >> >> > Nadya Morozova
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> >> > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
> > Pasko
> > >> >> >> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
> > >> >> >> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
> > >> DRL"
> > >> >> is
> > >> >> >> > outdated
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > Alexei,
> > >> >> >> > > Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not
> > >> think
> > >> >> ours
> > >> >> >> > is
> > >> >> >> > > ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a
> > >> tutorial.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > > So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
> > >> >> >> > > If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be
> > >> happy
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> >> > help
> > >> >> >> > > though.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for
> > VIM
> > >> :)
> > >> >> >> > some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and
> > then
> > >> >> >> > "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > > Thank you,
> > >> >> >> > > Nadya Morozova
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> >> > > From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:alexei.a.fedotov@intel.com]
> > >> >> >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
> > >> >> >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> >> > > Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
> > >> with
> > >> >> >> DRL"
> > >> >> >> > is
> > >> >> >> > > outdated
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > Guys,
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I
> > don't
> > >> >> need
> > >> >> >> > the
> > >> >> >> > > VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was
> > useful.
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > >       +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor
> > changes
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to
> > use
> > >> >> Harmony
> > >> >> >> > for
> > >> >> >> > > Harmony development. I liked that idea.
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > With best regards,
> > >> >> >> > > Alexei Fedotov,
> > >> >> >> > > Intel Java & XML Engineering
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > >> >> >> > > >From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
> > >> Pasko
> > >> >> >> > > >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
> > >> >> >> > > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> >> > > >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
> > with
> > >> >> DRL"
> > >> >> >> is
> > >> >> >> > > >outdated
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > >> Nadya,
> > >> >> >> > > >>
> > >> >> >> > > >> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove
> > all
> > >> >> >> current
> > >> >> >> > > >content
> > >> >> >> > > >> and write something like following:
> > >> >> >> > > >>
> > >> >> >> > > >> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from
> > >> other
> > >> >> >> Java
> > >> >> >> > > >> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it
> > >> (here
> > >> >> goes
> > >> >> >> > > link to
> > >> >> >> > > >> readme with build instructions) and run as any other
> > Java
> > >> VM.
> > >> >> For
> > >> >> >> > > >commonly
> > >> >> >> > > >> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page
> > >> (link
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> >> > > >Salikh's
> > >> >> >> > > >> page or to the document)."
> > >> >> >> > > >>
> > >> >> >> > > >> What do you think?
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> Thanks,
> > >> >> >> > > >> Pavel
> > >> >> >> > > >>
> > >> >> >> > > >>
> > >> >> >> > > >> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko
> > >> >> <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
> > >> >> >> > > wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > >> >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Good day to you, Egor!
> > >> >> >> > > >> >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
> > >> >> >> > > >> >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
> > >> >> >> > > >> >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony
> > >> >> operates
> > >> >> >> > near
> > >> >> >> > > >> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all
> > >> specifics
> > >> >> is
> > >> >> >> in
> > >> >> >> > > >> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for
> > an
> > >> >> extra
> > >> >> >> > > >> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting
> > the
> > >> >> page).
> > >> >> >> > > >> >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started".
> > >> So,
> > >> >> +1
> > >> >> >> to
> > >> >> >> > > Pavel
> > >> >> >> > > >> > Ozhdikhin here.
> > >> >> >> > > >> >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for
> > >> >> >> improvement
> > >> >> >> > > from
> > >> >> >> > > >> > him:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm,
> > Tomcat
> > >> >> has
> > >> >> >> it
> > >> >> >> > > with
> > >> >> >> > > >> > links to google search. We can have something as soon
> > as
> > >> we
> > >> >> get
> > >> >> >> > to
> > >> >> >> > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > desired TLP :)
> > >> >> >> > > >> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems
> > should
> > >> be
> > >> >> >> > > reported
> > >> >> >> > > >> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have
> > something
> > >> like
> > >> >> >> > > >> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to
> > the
> > >> >> >> mailing
> > >> >> >> > > list
> > >> >> >> > > >:)
> > >> >> >> > > >> >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Thank you,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Nadya Morozova
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> > >> Egor
> > >> >> >> Pasko
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
> > started
> > >> >> with
> > >> >> >> > DRL"
> > >> >> >> > > is
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > outdated
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > Egor,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation
> > >> over
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> >> > site
> > >> >> >> > > -
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not
> > >> sure
> > >> >> >> > whether
> > >> >> >> > > we
> > >> >> >> > > >need
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > yet another separate page for
> > introductory/guidance
> > >> >> info. I
> > >> >> >> > > hope
> > >> >> >> > > >the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are
> > mostly
> > >> >> fine.
> > >> >> >> > > However,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site
> > visitors.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > Getting started could be a more specific
> > >> >> project-oriented
> > >> >> >> > page.
> > >> >> >> > > >There,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > you can tell people to go <link>download</link>,
> > >> >> >> > > <link>build</link>
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > code. After which, they can start using it just as
> > >> any
> > >> >> >> other
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the
> > exceptions,
> > >> see
> > >> >> >> our
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > <link>wiki</link> pages.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the
> > >> following
> > >> >> >> > > options...
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > If they want to read more on our VM, they can
> > visit
> > >> the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > <link>component</link> page. If no website page
> > >> contains
> > >> >> an
> > >> >> >> > > answer
> > >> >> >> > > >-
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > .. or something like that :)
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this
> > >> morning
> > >> >> I
> > >> >> >> > woke
> > >> >> >> > > up
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > and looked the site structure with the eye of a
> > >> beginner.
> > >> >> And
> > >> >> >> > > could
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > not find any obvius flaws in the main structure.
> > >> Left-side
> > >> >> >> > > collection
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > of links is in a very good shape, good for
> > >> beginner-level
> > >> >> >> > > navigation
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > and contains almost all links you listed here.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > This was a really refreshing morning :)
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how
> > they
> > >> >> feel
> > >> >> >> > > about
> > >> >> >> > > >the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > site. And will report back, if I find something.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > Thank you,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > Nadya Morozova
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf
> > Of
> > >> Egor
> > >> >> >> > Pasko
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
> > >> started
> > >> >> >> with
> > >> >> >> > > DRL"
> > >> >> >> > > >is
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > outdated
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda
> > >> >> >> > <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com>
> > >> >> >> > > >wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Egor,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > +1 for
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
> > >> >> collection
> > >> >> >> of
> > >> >> >> > > links
> > >> >> >> > > >to
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short
> > >> >> >> descriptions
> > >> >> >> > > ("Site
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Map"
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > or something) so that people are comfortable
> > >> >> floating
> > >> >> >> > > around in
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > web.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > We already have one page having links to the
> > >> resources
> > >> >> >> > about
> > >> >> >> > > >DRLVM:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >>
> > >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Why do you think we need another one?
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > because it is only DRLVM.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > I think of something like "site map", a collection
> > of
> > >> >> >> links.
> > >> >> >> > > Short
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > descriptions to some basic ones.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > +1 for
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for
> > DRLVM"
> > >> >> >> > (omitting
> > >> >> >> > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > word
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally)
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Question on this one: will the page contain
> > >> vm-only
> > >> >> >> > > options?
> > >> >> >> > > >What
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > about
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one
> > place,
> > >> but
> > >> >> we
> > >> >> >> > have
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > separate
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > I think we can describe basic options for every
> > >> >> component
> > >> >> >> > > there.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Only
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > those
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > that might be interesting for any user. The
> > place
> > >> for
> > >> >> >> other
> > >> >> >> > > >options
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > is
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > in
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a
> > >> >> component.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > I thought of "most commonly used" options. They
> > can
> > >> >> >> possibly
> > >> >> >> > be
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > grouped by components, but not necessary. I would
> > >> group
> > >> >> >> them
> > >> >> >> > by
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious
> > >> substance
> > >> >> for
> > >> >> >> > me.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it
> > out.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to
> > know
> > >> >> about
> > >> >> >> > JITs
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > switching?". I say YES, it helps users to
> > investigate
> > >> >> >> > problems,
> > >> >> >> > > >which
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > helps us, developers, to react on users' input
> > >> faster.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > Other options? I can enlist the set of most
> > commonly
> > >> >> used
> > >> >> >> by
> > >> >> >> > > me. If
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > many of us put their lists here, we can sum them
> > up
> > >> >> quickly
> > >> >> >> > and
> > >> >> >> > > >make
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > a good (really useful) list of popular options.
> > How
> > >> >> about
> > >> >> >> > that?
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is
> > a
> > >> >> kind
> > >> >> >> of
> > >> >> >> > > limit
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Thanks,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Pavel
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Thank you,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Nadya Morozova
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On
> > Behalf
> > >> Of
> > >> >> >> Egor
> > >> >> >> > > Pasko
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document
> > "Getting
> > >> >> started
> > >> >> >> > > with
> > >> >> >> > > >DRL"
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > is
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > outdated
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda
> > >> Morozova
> > >> >> >> > wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > All,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the
> > sight
> > >> of
> > >> >> >> > > outdated
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > Getting
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry to
> > >> >> eliminate
> > >> >> >> > the
> > >> >> >> > > >page
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > as
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > such.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > We might reconsider some of its contents,
> > >> change
> > >> >> >> > > structure,
> > >> >> >> > > >and
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > update
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > individual bits, but please think carefully
> > >> before
> > >> >> >> > > removing
> > >> >> >> > > >the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > page.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > I think Getting Started (as the title shows)
> > is
> > >> >> aimed
> > >> >> >> > to
> > >> >> >> > > help
> > >> >> >> > > >a
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > newbie
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > work with our vm. I know that many primarily
> > >> >> >> interested
> > >> >> >> > > in
> > >> >> >> > > >other
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > things
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > - conformance, architecture, internal
> > >> specifics.
> > >> >> >> > However,
> > >> >> >> > > we
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > should
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > also
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting
> > >> started
> > >> >> is
> > >> >> >> now
> > >> >> >> > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > *only*
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > doc
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You
> > tell
> > >> >> people
> > >> >> >> > how
> > >> >> >> > > to
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > download
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > and build, but almost nothing about how to
> > run
> > >> and
> > >> >> >> > > configure
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > (with
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > exception of EM/JIT).
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > My suggestion would be to think of what you
> > >> want
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> >> > tell
> > >> >> >> > > >people
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > about
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > usage - with or without eclipse specifics.
> > And
> > >> >> store
> > >> >> >> > this
> > >> >> >> > > >info
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > on
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > page. I know it is hard - and I offer my
> > help
> > >> and
> > >> >> >> > support
> > >> >> >> > > in
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > this
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might
> > be
> > >> >> >> > > inobjective
> > >> >> >> > > >and
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > emotional :)
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Nadya,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > I believe, almost everyone coming across
> > Harmony
> > >> >> knows
> > >> >> >> > how
> > >> >> >> > > to
> > >> >> >> > > >use
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility,
> > and
> > >> we
> > >> >> >> are
> > >> >> >> > > happy
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > that
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > So, I vote for:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > * removing the "Getting Started" (also because
> > of
> > >> >> >> > > irritating
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > windows
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > screenshots:)
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for
> > DRLVM"
> > >> >> >> > (omitting
> > >> >> >> > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > word
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally)
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
> > >> >> collection
> > >> >> >> of
> > >> >> >> > > links
> > >> >> >> > > >to
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short
> > >> >> >> descriptions
> > >> >> >> > > ("Site
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Map"
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > or something) so that people are comfortable
> > >> >> floating
> > >> >> >> > > around in
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > the
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > web.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > From: Mikhail Fursov
> > >> >> [mailto:mike.fursov@gmail.com]
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document
> > "Getting
> > >> >> >> started
> > >> >> >> > > with
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > DRL"
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > is
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > outdated
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > It's not a hard to write a documenation
> > once,
> > >> it's
> > >> >> >> hard
> > >> >> >> > > to
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > support
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > it
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > :)
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > More problems:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU
> > >> users
> > >> >> >> > expect
> > >> >> >> > > >Harmony
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > VM is
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > able
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > to run the same apps as RI..
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > ?
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin
> > >> >> >> <pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com>
> > >> >> >> > > >wrote:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Hello all,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > I've read through the "Getting Started
> > with
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > DRL<
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
> > >> >> >> > > .
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > html
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > >"
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > document on the Harmony web and found it
> > >> >> completely
> > >> >> >> > > >outdated,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > for
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > example:
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are
> > obsolete
> > >> -
> > >> >> we
> > >> >> >> > don't
> > >> >> >> > > >need
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > them
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > anymore
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    to run Eclipse. It can be started with
> > >> DRLVM
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> >> > > same
> > >> >> >> > > >way
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > as
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > with
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > any
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > other
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    VM.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - We don't need to set PATH and
> > >> >> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
> > >> >> >> > > anymore,
> > >> >> >> > > >at
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > least
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > on
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    Windows/MSVC
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - ij was renamed to java
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > We took a big step to unification with
> > other
> > >> >> Java
> > >> >> >> VMs
> > >> >> >> > > and
> > >> >> >> > > >now
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > we don't need anything specific to run
> > >> Eclipse,
> > >> >> for
> > >> >> >> > > >example.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > After
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > removing
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > all irrelevant info the document would
> > >> contain
> > >> >> only
> > >> >> >> > the
> > >> >> >> > > >list
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > of
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > command-line
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > options. I think we can move this list to
> > a
> > >> >> >> separate
> > >> >> >> > > >document
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > (Wiki,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Developer's Guide?) and remove the
> > "Getting
> > >> >> >> Started"
> > >> >> >> > > >itself.
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Any opinions?
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Pavel
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > <
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
> > >> >> >> > > .
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > html
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > --
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Mikhail Fursov
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > --
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Egor Pasko
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > --
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > > Egor Pasko
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > --
> > >> >> >> > > >> > > Egor Pasko
> > >> >> >> > > >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > >> >
> > >> >> >> > > >> > --
> > >> >> >> > > >> > Egor Pasko
> > >> >> >> > > >> >
> > >> >> >> > > >> >
> > >> >> >> > > >
> > >> >> >> > > >--
> > >> >> >> > > >Egor Pasko
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > --
> > >> >> >> > Egor Pasko
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> --
> > >> >> >> Egor Pasko
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >--
> > >> >> >Egor Pasko
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >--
> > >> >Egor Pasko
> > >>
> >

-- 
Egor Pasko


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