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From "Morozova, Nadezhda" <nadezhda.moroz...@intel.com>
Subject RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated
Date Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:47:13 GMT
Hi all,
I have attached an updated version of the patch for the getting started
page to the JIRA. If someone knowledgeable takes a look and evaluates,
that would be great.
I am not the reporter of the issue, so I cannot set the 'patch
available' setting. However, if no requests for fixes arrive, I suggest
that we consider the issue ready to be closed.

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:43 AM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>outdated
>
>OK then for Configuring VM section JIT options proposed by Egor will be
>suitable:
>
>"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
>"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
>"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
>
>I'd also add:
>
>"-Xem:server" - enable dynamic optimization mode tuned for long-running
>server-side applications (default optimization mode is tuned for fast
>start-up and client-side applications)
>"-Xem server_static" - enable static optimization mode tuned for
>long-running server-side applications
>
>Thanks,
>Pavel
>
>On 11/14/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
>>
>> Pavel,
>> Thanks for your comments. I'll work through the examples and post an
>> updated patch soon.
>> As for the Configuring VM operation - can we at least have a couple
of
>> examples in the form of scenarios or something? The wiki page only
gives
>> a reference, an enumeration of available options. Using these might
not
>> always be transparent. I know it's tutorial-level info, but why not
have
>> it? Giving a show-case of customizing vm to a specific need would be
>> great.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nadya Morozova
>>
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com]
>> >Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:23 AM
>> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
>> is
>> >outdated
>> >
>> >Nadya,
>> >
>> >I've looked through your patch. Please see my comments in JIRA:
>> >http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
>> >
>> >> Do you think we can add a link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to
wiki)?
>> >
>> >I don't think we need it - it is rather info for developers than for
>> users.
>> >
>> >> Any ideas on what to write in Configuring vm operation?
>> >
>> >This section will duplicate the info from the Wiki page. Since we
gave
>> a
>> >link to that page in the "overview" we may skip creation of a
separate
>> >section here.
>> >
>> >Thanks,
>> >Pavel
>> >
>> >
>> >On 11/13/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Successfully added a patch to fix getting Started outdated content
to
>> >> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150.
>> >> The patch is not final - need help to add more content. The
current
>> >> structure is:
>> >> - overview
>> >> - running an app
>> >> - eclipse-related (now much shorter)
>> >>        -- running an app
>> >>        -- debugging an app
>> >> - configuring vm operation (empty)
>> >>
>> >> Questions: how do you like the current patch? Do you think we can
add
>> a
>> >> link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)? Any ideas on what to
write
>> in
>> >> Configuring vm operation?
>> >>
>> >> Thank you,
>> >> Nadya Morozova
>> >>
>> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:00 PM
>> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>> >> >outdated
>> >> >
>> >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> >> >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>> >> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>> >> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
>> is
>> >> >> >outdated
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> >> >> Ok,
>> >> >> >> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
to
>> get
>> >> an
>> >> >> >> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can
then
>> >> work
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> improve it.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >OK, I am "watching" it
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
>> >> how-tos.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >To summarize:
>> >> >> >* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they
are
>> for
>> >> >> >  eclipse+drlvm page)
>> >> >> >* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind
of
>> >> >> >  links we have"
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Am I right?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> [Nadya]
>> >> >> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
>> out
>> >> >> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>> >> >
>> >> >remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
>> law,
>> >> >not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
>> >> >desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for
all
>> >> your
>> >> >> help.
>> >> >
>> >> >u r welcome
>> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Thank you,
>> >> >> >> Nadya Morozova
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
Pasko
>> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
>> >> >> >> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
>> DRL"
>> >> is
>> >> >> >> outdated
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Egor,
>> >> >> >> > I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
>> >> perceptions
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> > various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a
tutorial
>> -
>> >> it's
>> >> >> >> more
>> >> >> >> > of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write
this
>> >> "How
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> > write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for
"DRLVM
>> >> >> >> Command-line
>> >> >> >> > Args Tutorial"?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> on Wikipedia:
>> >> >> >> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how
to
>> >> >> >> accomplish
>> >> >> >>   some specific task
>> >> >> >> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media
created
>> for
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> yes, I mix those terms :)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics
on
>> >> >> another
>> >> >> >> > page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki,
but a
>> >> short
>> >> >> >> > howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common
>> options,
>> >> >> >> solving
>> >> >> >> > typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
>> >> >> >> > Does anybody volunteer to help?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for
the
>> >> howto
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > Thank you,
>> >> >> >> > Nadya Morozova
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
>> Pasko
>> >> >> >> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
>> >> >> >> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
with
>> >> DRL"
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> > outdated
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > Alexei,
>> >> >> >> > > Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do
not
>> >> think
>> >> >> ours
>> >> >> >> > is
>> >> >> >> > > ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a
>> >> tutorial.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > > So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
>> >> >> >> > > If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd
be
>> >> happy
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> > help
>> >> >> >> > > though.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one
for
>> VIM
>> >> :)
>> >> >> >> > some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony",
and
>> then
>> >> >> >> > "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > > Thank you,
>> >> >> >> > > Nadya Morozova
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> > > From: Fedotov, Alexei A
[mailto:alexei.a.fedotov@intel.com]
>> >> >> >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
>> >> >> >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >> >> > > Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
started
>> >> with
>> >> >> >> DRL"
>> >> >> >> > is
>> >> >> >> > > outdated
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > Guys,
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I
>> don't
>> >> >> need
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > > VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was
>> useful.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >       +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor
>> changes
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to
>> use
>> >> >> Harmony
>> >> >> >> > for
>> >> >> >> > > Harmony development. I liked that idea.
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > With best regards,
>> >> >> >> > > Alexei Fedotov,
>> >> >> >> > > Intel Java & XML Engineering
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >-----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> > > >From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Egor
>> >> Pasko
>> >> >> >> > > >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
>> >> >> >> > > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >> >> > > >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
>> with
>> >> >> DRL"
>> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> > > >outdated
>> >> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin
wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > >> Nadya,
>> >> >> >> > > >>
>> >> >> >> > > >> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's
remove
>> all
>> >> >> >> current
>> >> >> >> > > >content
>> >> >> >> > > >> and write something like following:
>> >> >> >> > > >>
>> >> >> >> > > >> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences
from
>> >> other
>> >> >> >> Java
>> >> >> >> > > >> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build
it
>> >> (here
>> >> >> goes
>> >> >> >> > > link to
>> >> >> >> > > >> readme with build instructions) and run as any other
>> Java
>> >> VM.
>> >> >> For
>> >> >> >> > > >commonly
>> >> >> >> > > >> used command-line options please look into the Wiki
page
>> >> (link
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> > > >Salikh's
>> >> >> >> > > >> page or to the document)."
>> >> >> >> > > >>
>> >> >> >> > > >> What do you think?
>> >> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
>> >> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> Thanks,
>> >> >> >> > > >> Pavel
>> >> >> >> > > >>
>> >> >> >> > > >>
>> >> >> >> > > >> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko
>> >> >> <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> > > wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda
Morozova
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Good day to you, Egor!
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that
Harmony
>> >> >> operates
>> >> >> >> > near
>> >> >> >> > > >> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all
>> >> specifics
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> > > >> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki
for
>> an
>> >> >> extra
>> >> >> >> > > >> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting
>> the
>> >> >> page).
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting
Started".
>> >> So,
>> >> >> +1
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> > > Pavel
>> >> >> >> > > >> > Ozhdikhin here.
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas
for
>> >> >> >> improvement
>> >> >> >> > > from
>> >> >> >> > > >> > him:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm,
>> Tomcat
>> >> >> has
>> >> >> >> it
>> >> >> >> > > with
>> >> >> >> > > >> > links to google search. We can have something as
soon
>> as
>> >> we
>> >> >> get
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > desired TLP :)
>> >> >> >> > > >> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems
>> should
>> >> be
>> >> >> >> > > reported
>> >> >> >> > > >> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have
>> something
>> >> like
>> >> >> >> > > >> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto
to
>> the
>> >> >> >> mailing
>> >> >> >> > > list
>> >> >> >> > > >:)
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Thank you,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Nadya Morozova
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf
Of
>> >> Egor
>> >> >> >> Pasko
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
>> started
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> >> > DRL"
>> >> >> >> > > is
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > outdated
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda
Morozova
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Egor,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > I generally like the idea of improving
navigation
>> >> over
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> > site
>> >> >> >> > > -
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am
not
>> >> sure
>> >> >> >> > whether
>> >> >> >> > > we
>> >> >> >> > > >need
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > yet another separate page for
>> introductory/guidance
>> >> >> info. I
>> >> >> >> > > hope
>> >> >> >> > > >the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are
>> mostly
>> >> >> fine.
>> >> >> >> > > However,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site
>> visitors.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Getting started could be a more specific
>> >> >> project-oriented
>> >> >> >> > page.
>> >> >> >> > > >There,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > you can tell people to go
<link>download</link>,
>> >> >> >> > > <link>build</link>
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > code. After which, they can start using it just
as
>> >> any
>> >> >> >> other
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the
>> exceptions,
>> >> see
>> >> >> >> our
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > <link>wiki</link> pages.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the
>> >> following
>> >> >> >> > > options...
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > If they want to read more on our VM, they can
>> visit
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > <link>component</link> page. If no website page
>> >> contains
>> >> >> an
>> >> >> >> > > answer
>> >> >> >> > > >-
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > .. or something like that :)
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But
this
>> >> morning
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> >> > woke
>> >> >> >> > > up
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > and looked the site structure with the eye of a
>> >> beginner.
>> >> >> And
>> >> >> >> > > could
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > not find any obvius flaws in the main structure.
>> >> Left-side
>> >> >> >> > > collection
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > of links is in a very good shape, good for
>> >> beginner-level
>> >> >> >> > > navigation
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > and contains almost all links you listed here.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > This was a really refreshing morning :)
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > I'll ask some guys who are new to the project,
how
>> they
>> >> >> feel
>> >> >> >> > > about
>> >> >> >> > > >the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > site. And will report back, if I find something.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Thank you,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Nadya Morozova
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On
Behalf
>> Of
>> >> Egor
>> >> >> >> > Pasko
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
>> >> started
>> >> >> >> with
>> >> >> >> > > DRL"
>> >> >> >> > > >is
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > outdated
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel
Ozhdikhin
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda
>> >> >> >> > <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com>
>> >> >> >> > > >wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Egor,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > +1 for
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
>> >> >> collection
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> > > links
>> >> >> >> > > >to
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short
>> >> >> >> descriptions
>> >> >> >> > > ("Site
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Map"
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > or something) so that people are
comfortable
>> >> >> floating
>> >> >> >> > > around in
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > web.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > We already have one page having links to the
>> >> resources
>> >> >> >> > about
>> >> >> >> > > >DRLVM:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >>
>> >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Why do you think we need another one?
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > because it is only DRLVM.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > I think of something like "site map", a
collection
>> of
>> >> >> >> links.
>> >> >> >> > > Short
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > descriptions to some basic ones.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > +1 for
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for
>> DRLVM"
>> >> >> >> > (omitting
>> >> >> >> > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > word
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally)
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Question on this one: will the page contain
>> >> vm-only
>> >> >> >> > > options?
>> >> >> >> > > >What
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > about
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one
>> place,
>> >> but
>> >> >> we
>> >> >> >> > have
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > separate
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > I think we can describe basic options for
every
>> >> >> component
>> >> >> >> > > there.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Only
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > those
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > that might be interesting for any user. The
>> place
>> >> for
>> >> >> >> other
>> >> >> >> > > >options
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > is
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > in
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a
>> >> >> component.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > I thought of "most commonly used" options. They
>> can
>> >> >> >> possibly
>> >> >> >> > be
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > grouped by components, but not necessary. I
would
>> >> group
>> >> >> >> them
>> >> >> >> > by
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious
>> >> substance
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> > me.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it
>> out.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to
>> know
>> >> >> about
>> >> >> >> > JITs
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > switching?". I say YES, it helps users to
>> investigate
>> >> >> >> > problems,
>> >> >> >> > > >which
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > helps us, developers, to react on users' input
>> >> faster.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Other options? I can enlist the set of most
>> commonly
>> >> >> used
>> >> >> >> by
>> >> >> >> > > me. If
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > many of us put their lists here, we can sum
them
>> up
>> >> >> quickly
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > > >make
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > a good (really useful) list of popular options.
>> How
>> >> >> about
>> >> >> >> > that?
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options
is
>> a
>> >> >> kind
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> > > limit
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Thanks,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Pavel
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Thank you,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Nadya Morozova
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On
>> Behalf
>> >> Of
>> >> >> >> Egor
>> >> >> >> > > Pasko
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document
>> "Getting
>> >> >> started
>> >> >> >> > > with
>> >> >> >> > > >DRL"
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > is
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > outdated
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda
>> >> Morozova
>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > All,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the
>> sight
>> >> of
>> >> >> >> > > outdated
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Getting
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry
to
>> >> >> eliminate
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > > >page
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > as
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > such.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > We might reconsider some of its contents,
>> >> change
>> >> >> >> > > structure,
>> >> >> >> > > >and
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > update
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > individual bits, but please think
carefully
>> >> before
>> >> >> >> > > removing
>> >> >> >> > > >the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > page.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > I think Getting Started (as the title
shows)
>> is
>> >> >> aimed
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > > help
>> >> >> >> > > >a
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > newbie
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > work with our vm. I know that many
primarily
>> >> >> >> interested
>> >> >> >> > > in
>> >> >> >> > > >other
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > things
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > - conformance, architecture, internal
>> >> specifics.
>> >> >> >> > However,
>> >> >> >> > > we
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > should
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > also
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting
>> >> started
>> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> now
>> >> >> >> > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > *only*
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > doc
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You
>> tell
>> >> >> people
>> >> >> >> > how
>> >> >> >> > > to
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > download
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > and build, but almost nothing about how
to
>> run
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> > > configure
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > (with
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > exception of EM/JIT).
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > My suggestion would be to think of what
you
>> >> want
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> > tell
>> >> >> >> > > >people
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > about
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > usage - with or without eclipse
specifics.
>> And
>> >> >> store
>> >> >> >> > this
>> >> >> >> > > >info
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > on
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > page. I know it is hard - and I offer my
>> help
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> > support
>> >> >> >> > > in
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > this
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i
might
>> be
>> >> >> >> > > inobjective
>> >> >> >> > > >and
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > emotional :)
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Nadya,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > I believe, almost everyone coming across
>> Harmony
>> >> >> knows
>> >> >> >> > how
>> >> >> >> > > to
>> >> >> >> > > >use
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > J5SE. We are striving for this
compatibility,
>> and
>> >> we
>> >> >> >> are
>> >> >> >> > > happy
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > that
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > So, I vote for:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > * removing the "Getting Started" (also
because
>> of
>> >> >> >> > > irritating
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > windows
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > screenshots:)
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for
>> DRLVM"
>> >> >> >> > (omitting
>> >> >> >> > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > word
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally)
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
>> >> >> collection
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> > > links
>> >> >> >> > > >to
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short
>> >> >> >> descriptions
>> >> >> >> > > ("Site
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Map"
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > or something) so that people are
comfortable
>> >> >> floating
>> >> >> >> > > around in
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > the
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > web.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > From: Mikhail Fursov
>> >> >> [mailto:mike.fursov@gmail.com]
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03
PM
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document
>> "Getting
>> >> >> >> started
>> >> >> >> > > with
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > DRL"
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > is
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > outdated
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > It's not a hard to write a documenation
>> once,
>> >> it's
>> >> >> >> hard
>> >> >> >> > > to
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > support
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > it
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > :)
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > More problems:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > 3) Do we really need this page today?
AFAIU
>> >> users
>> >> >> >> > expect
>> >> >> >> > > >Harmony
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > VM is
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > able
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > to run the same apps as RI..
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > ?
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin
>> >> >> >> <pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> > > >wrote:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Hello all,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > I've read through the "Getting Started
>> with
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > DRL<
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
>> >> >> >> > > .
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > html
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > >"
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > document on the Harmony web and found
it
>> >> >> completely
>> >> >> >> > > >outdated,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > for
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > example:
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - the term DRL is used instead of
DRLVM
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are
>> obsolete
>> >> -
>> >> >> we
>> >> >> >> > don't
>> >> >> >> > > >need
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > them
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > anymore
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    to run Eclipse. It can be started
with
>> >> DRLVM
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> > > same
>> >> >> >> > > >way
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > as
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > with
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > any
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > other
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    VM.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - We don't need to set PATH and
>> >> >> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
>> >> >> >> > > anymore,
>> >> >> >> > > >at
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > least
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > on
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    Windows/MSVC
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - ij was renamed to java
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > We took a big step to unification with
>> other
>> >> >> Java
>> >> >> >> VMs
>> >> >> >> > > and
>> >> >> >> > > >now
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > we don't need anything specific to run
>> >> Eclipse,
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> > > >example.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > After
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > removing
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > all irrelevant info the document would
>> >> contain
>> >> >> only
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > > >list
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > of
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > command-line
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > options. I think we can move this list
to
>> a
>> >> >> >> separate
>> >> >> >> > > >document
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > (Wiki,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Developer's Guide?) and remove the
>> "Getting
>> >> >> >> Started"
>> >> >> >> > > >itself.
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Any opinions?
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks,
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Pavel
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > <
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
>> >> >> >> > > .
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > html
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > --
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Mikhail Fursov
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > --
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Egor Pasko
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > --
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Egor Pasko
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > --
>> >> >> >> > > >> > > Egor Pasko
>> >> >> >> > > >> > >
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >> > --
>> >> >> >> > > >> > Egor Pasko
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> >> > > >--
>> >> >> >> > > >Egor Pasko
>> >> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >> > Egor Pasko
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Egor Pasko
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >--
>> >> >> >Egor Pasko
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >Egor Pasko
>> >>
>>

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