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From "Morozova, Nadezhda" <nadezhda.moroz...@intel.com>
Subject RE: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated
Date Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:46:34 GMT
Ok, thanks.
I somehow feel dumb with anything that deals with legal - copyrights,
contracts, licenses...oh! I'd erase all excess disclaimers from our
website with pleasure :) 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:45 PM
>To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>outdated
>
>"Additional terms from the Database" ? LOL
>
>Just get rid of it all.  Those terms are in our notice file, and that's
>enough.  Unicode didn't put them there, anyway.
>
>geir
>
>
>Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
>>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
>> html#Disclaimer
>>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/developers_guide
>> .html - these seem to have apache and intel copyright (can be
resolved)
>> + the Unicode disclaimer.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Nadya Morozova
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:14 PM
>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>>> outdated
>>>
>>> what's the link we're talking about?
>>>
>>> Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
>>>> What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>>>>> outdated
>>>>>
>>>>> as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's an
>> ASF
>>>>> copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be
>>>>> auto-generated at the bottom anyway)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> geir
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Egor Pasko wrote:
>>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
>>>> is
>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ok,
>>>>>>>>> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to
>> get
>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can
then
>>>> work
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> improve it.
>>>>>>>> OK, I am "watching" it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
>>>> how-tos.
>>>>>>>> To summarize:
>>>>>>>> * we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are
>> for
>>>>>>>>  eclipse+drlvm page)
>>>>>>>> * we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind
of
>>>>>>>>  links we have"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am I right?
>>>>>>> [Nadya]
>>>>>>> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
>> out
>>>>>>> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>>>>>> remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
>> law,
>>>>>> not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
>>>>>> desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for
all
>>>> your
>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>> u r welcome
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
>> DRL"
>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>> I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
>> perceptions
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial
-
>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this
>>>> "How
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
>>>>>>>>> Command-line
>>>>>>>>>> Args Tutorial"?
>>>>>>>>> on Wikipedia:
>>>>>>>>> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how
to
>>>>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>>>>>   some specific task
>>>>>>>>> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created
>> for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> yes, I mix those terms :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on
>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>> page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a
>>>> short
>>>>>>>>>> howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common
options,
>>>>>>>>> solving
>>>>>>>>>> typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
>>>>>>>>>> Does anybody volunteer to help?
>>>>>>>>> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for
the
>>>> howto
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
Pasko
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
>> DRL"
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei,
>>>>>>>>>>> Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not
>> think
>>>>>>> ours
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a
>>>> tutorial.
>>>>>>>>>> we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
>>>>>>>>>>> If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be
>> happy
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>>>> well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for
>> VIM
>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>> some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and
>> then
>>>>>>>>>> "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:alexei.a.fedotov@intel.com]
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
>> with
>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I
don't
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 	+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use
>>>>>>> Harmony
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Harmony development. I liked that idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov,
>>>>>>>>>>> Intel Java & XML Engineering
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
with
>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove
all
>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and write something like following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from
>> other
>>>>>>>>> Java
>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it
(here
>>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>>>>>> link to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java
>> VM.
>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>>>>> commonly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page
>> (link
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Salikh's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> page or to the document)."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko
>>>>>>> <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good day to you, Egor!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, dark and snowy evening :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you say about the getting started doc?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony
>>>>>>> operates
>>>>>>>>>> near
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all
specifics
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an
>>>>>>> extra
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the
>>>>>>> page).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started".
So,
>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ozhdikhin here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for
>>>>>>>>> improvement
>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to google search. We can have something as soon as
we
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> desired TLP :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should
be
>>>>>>>>>>> reported
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something
>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the
>>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I generally like the idea of improving navigation over
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> site
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure
>>>>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet another separate page for introductory/guidance
>>>>>>> info. I
>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly
>>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting started could be a more specific
>>>>>>> project-oriented
>>>>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can tell people to go <link>download</link>,
>>>>>>>>>>> <link>build</link>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code. After which, they can start using it just as any
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions,
see
>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>wiki</link> pages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To use the vm, readers might need to use the following
>>>>>>>>>>> options...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>component</link> page. If no website page
contains
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .. or something like that :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this
morning
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> woke
>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looked the site structure with the eye of a
beginner.
>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not find any obvius flaws in the main structure.
Left-side
>>>>>>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of links is in a very good shape, good for
beginner-level
>>>>>>>>>>> navigation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and contains almost all links you listed here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This was a really refreshing morning :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they
>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> site. And will report back, if I find something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Egor
>>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda
>>>>>>>>>> <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
>>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main website and other resources with short
>>>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>>>>>> ("Site
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Map"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something) so that people are comfortable
>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>> around in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We already have one page having links to the resources
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> DRLVM:
>> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you think we need another one?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it is only DRLVM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think of something like "site map", a collection of
>>>>>>>>> links.
>>>>>>>>>>> Short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> descriptions to some basic ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM"
>>>>>>>>>> (omitting
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "supported" intentionally)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only
>>>>>>>>>>> options?
>>>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we can describe basic options for every
>>>>>>> component
>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that might be interesting for any user. The place for
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a
>>>>>>> component.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can
>>>>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> JITs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate
>>>>>>>>>> problems,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly
>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> me. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up
>>>>>>> quickly
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a good (really useful) list of popular options. How
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a
>>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> limit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>> Egor
>>>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of
>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Started document. However, I'd not hurry to
>>>>>>> eliminate
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We might reconsider some of its contents, change
>>>>>>>>>>> structure,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individual bits, but please think carefully before
>>>>>>>>>>> removing
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is
>>>>>>> aimed
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> newbie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work with our vm. I know that many primarily
>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - conformance, architecture, internal specifics.
>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *only*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> download
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and build, but almost nothing about how to run and
>>>>>>>>>>> configure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exception of EM/JIT).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion would be to think of what you want
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And
>>>>>>> store
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and
>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be
>>>>>>>>>>> inobjective
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotional :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony
>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> happy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I vote for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * removing the "Getting Started" (also because of
>>>>>>>>>>> irritating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screenshots:)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM"
>>>>>>>>>> (omitting
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "supported" intentionally)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
>>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main website and other resources with short
>>>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>>>>>> ("Site
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Map"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something) so that people are comfortable
>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>> around in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Mikhail Fursov
>>>>>>> [mailto:mike.fursov@gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
>>>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's
>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More problems:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users
>>>>>>>>>> expect
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harmony
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VM is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to run the same apps as RI..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin
>>>>>>>>> <pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've read through the "Getting Started with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> document on the Harmony web and found it
>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete -
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    VM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - We don't need to set PATH and
>>>>>>> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
>>>>>>>>>>> anymore,
>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Windows/MSVC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - ij was renamed to java
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We took a big step to unification with other
>>>>>>> Java
>>>>>>>>> VMs
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse,
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> example.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all irrelevant info the document would contain
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> command-line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options. I think we can move this list to a
>>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>>>>>> document
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wiki,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting
>>>>>>>>> Started"
>>>>>>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikhail Fursov
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>

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