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From "Morozova, Nadezhda" <nadezhda.moroz...@intel.com>
Subject RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated
Date Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:31:51 GMT
Good day to you, Egor! 
What do you say about the getting started doc?

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> Egor,
> I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site -
> there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we need
> yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope the
> starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However,
> adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. 
> 
> Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. There,
> you can tell people to go <link>download</link>, <link>build</link>
the
> code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
> <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions, see our
> <link>wiki</link> pages.
> To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options...
> If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
> <link>component</link> page. If no website page contains an answer -
> they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>. 
> .. or something like that :) 

Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning I woke up
and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. And could
not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side collection
of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level navigation
and contains almost all links you listed here.

This was a really refreshing morning :)

I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they feel about the
site. And will report back, if I find something.

Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..

> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> outdated
> 
> On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Egor,
> > > +1 for
> > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to
> the
> > > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site
Map"
> > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in
the
> web.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM:
> > http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
> > Why do you think we need another one?
> 
> because it is only DRLVM.
> I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short
> descriptions to some basic ones.
> 
> > 
> > +1 for
> > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the
word
> > > "supported" intentionally)
> > > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What
> about
> > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have
separate
> > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
> > 
> > 
> > I think we can describe basic options for every component there.
Only
> those
> > that might be interesting for any user. The place for other options
is
> in
> > the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component.
> 
> I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can possibly be
> grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group them by
> use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for me. 
> 
> So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.
> 
> I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
> "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
> "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
> "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
> 
> The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about JITs
> switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate problems, which
> helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.
> 
> Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used by me. If
> many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly and make
> a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about that?
> 
> BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind of limit
> 
> > Thanks,
> > Pavel
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > > Nadya Morozova
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
> > > outdated
> > >
> > > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > > All,
> > > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated
> Getting
> > > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page
as
> > > such.
> > > > We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and
> update
> > > > individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the
> page.
> > > >
> > > > I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a
> newbie
> > > > work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other
> > > things
> > > > - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we
> should
> > > also
> > > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the
*only*
> doc
> > > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to
> download
> > > > and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure
(with
> the
> > > > exception of EM/JIT).
> > > >
> > > > My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people
> about
> > > > usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info
on
> the
> > > > page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in
this
> > > > burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and
> > > > emotional :)
> > >
> > > Nadya,
> > >
> > > I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony knows how to use
> > > J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we are happy
that
> > > all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
> > >
> > > So, I vote for:
> > > * removing the "Getting Started" (also because of irritating
windows
> > > screenshots:)
> > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the
word
> > > "supported" intentionally)
> > >
> > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to
> the
> > > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site
Map"
> > > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in
the
> web.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:mike.fursov@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
> > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
> is
> > > > outdated
> > > >
> > > > It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to
support
> it
> > > :)
> > > > More problems:
> > > > 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
> > > > 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
> > > > 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony
> VM is
> > > > able
> > > > to run the same apps as RI..
> > > > ?
> > > >
> > > > On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello all,
> > > > > I've read through the "Getting Started with
> > > > > DRL<
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> > > > html
> > > > > >"
> > > > > document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated,
> for
> > > > example:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >    - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
> > > > >    - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't need
> them
> > > > anymore
> > > > >    to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way
as
> with
> > > > any
> > > > > other
> > > > >    VM.
> > > > >    - We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at
> least
> > > > on
> > > > >    Windows/MSVC
> > > > >    - ij was renamed to java
> > > > >
> > > > > We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
> > > > > we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example.
> After
> > > > > removing
> > > > > all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list
of
> > > > > command-line
> > > > > options. I think we can move this list to a separate document
> (Wiki,
> > > > > Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any opinions?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Pavel
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> > > > html
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mikhail Fursov
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Egor Pasko
> > >
> 
> -- 
> Egor Pasko
> 

-- 
Egor Pasko

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