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From "Morozova, Nadezhda" <nadezhda.moroz...@intel.com>
Subject RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated
Date Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:37:50 GMT
Egor,
I generally like the idea of improving navigation over the site -
there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure whether we need
yet another separate page for introductory/guidance info. I hope the
starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly fine. However,
adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. 

Getting started could be a more specific project-oriented page. There,
you can tell people to go <link>download</link>, <link>build</link>
the
code. After which, they can start using it just as any other
<link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions, see our
<link>wiki</link> pages.
To use the vm, readers might need to use the following options...
If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
<link>component</link> page. If no website page contains an answer -
they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>. 
.. or something like that :) 

Thank you, 
Nadya Morozova
 
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
> On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
> >
> > Egor,
> > +1 for
> > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to
the
> > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
> > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the
web.
> 
> 
> 
> We already have one page having links to the resources about DRLVM:
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
> Why do you think we need another one?

because it is only DRLVM.
I think of something like "site map", a collection of links. Short
descriptions to some basic ones.

> 
> +1 for
> > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
> > "supported" intentionally)
> > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only options? What
about
> > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but we have separate
> > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
> 
> 
> I think we can describe basic options for every component there. Only
those
> that might be interesting for any user. The place for other options is
in
> the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a component.

I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can possibly be
grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group them by
use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance for me. 

So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.

I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"

The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know about JITs
switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate problems, which
helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.

Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly used by me. If
many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up quickly and make
a good (really useful) list of popular options. How about that?

BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a kind of limit

> Thanks,
> Pavel
> 
> Thank you,
> > Nadya Morozova
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
> > outdated
> >
> > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> > > All,
> > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of outdated
Getting
> > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry to eliminate the page as
> > such.
> > > We might reconsider some of its contents, change structure, and
update
> > > individual bits, but please think carefully before removing the
page.
> > >
> > > I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is aimed to help a
newbie
> > > work with our vm. I know that many primarily interested in other
> > things
> > > - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. However, we
should
> > also
> > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started is now the *only*
doc
> > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell people how to
download
> > > and build, but almost nothing about how to run and configure (with
the
> > > exception of EM/JIT).
> > >
> > > My suggestion would be to think of what you want to tell people
about
> > > usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And store this info on
the
> > > page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and support in this
> > > burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be inobjective and
> > > emotional :)
> >
> > Nadya,
> >
> > I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony knows how to use
> > J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we are happy that
> > all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
> >
> > So, I vote for:
> > * removing the "Getting Started" (also because of irritating windows
> > screenshots:)
> > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" (omitting the word
> > "supported" intentionally)
> >
> > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a collection of links to
the
> > main website and other resources with short descriptions ("Site Map"
> > or something) so that people are comfortable floating around in the
web.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mikhail Fursov [mailto:mike.fursov@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
> > > outdated
> > >
> > > It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's hard to support
it
> > :)
> > > More problems:
> > > 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
> > > 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
> > > 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users expect Harmony
VM is
> > > able
> > > to run the same apps as RI..
> > > ?
> > >
> > > On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin <pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello all,
> > > > I've read through the "Getting Started with
> > > > DRL<
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> > > html
> > > > >"
> > > > document on the Harmony web and found it completely outdated,
for
> > > example:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >    - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
> > > >    - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - we don't need
them
> > > anymore
> > > >    to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM the same way as
with
> > > any
> > > > other
> > > >    VM.
> > > >    - We don't need to set PATH and LD_LIBRARY_PATH anymore, at
least
> > > on
> > > >    Windows/MSVC
> > > >    - ij was renamed to java
> > > >
> > > > We took a big step to unification with other Java VMs and now
> > > > we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, for example.
After
> > > > removing
> > > > all irrelevant info the document would contain only the list of
> > > > command-line
> > > > options. I think we can move this list to a separate document
(Wiki,
> > > > Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting Started" itself.
> > > >
> > > > Any opinions?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Pavel
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> > > html
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mikhail Fursov
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Egor Pasko
> >

-- 
Egor Pasko

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