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From "Pavel Ozhdikhin" <pavel.ozhdik...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated
Date Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:59:03 GMT
Nadya,

I suggested one minor change to your patch in JIRA. Otherwise the patch
looks fine to me.

Thanks,
Pavel


On 11/15/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> I have attached an updated version of the patch for the getting started
> page to the JIRA. If someone knowledgeable takes a look and evaluates,
> that would be great.
> I am not the reporter of the issue, so I cannot set the 'patch
> available' setting. However, if no requests for fixes arrive, I suggest
> that we consider the issue ready to be closed.
>
> Thank you,
> Nadya Morozova
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:43 AM
> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> is
> >outdated
> >
> >OK then for Configuring VM section JIT options proposed by Egor will be
> >suitable:
> >
> >"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
> >"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
> >"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
> >
> >I'd also add:
> >
> >"-Xem:server" - enable dynamic optimization mode tuned for long-running
> >server-side applications (default optimization mode is tuned for fast
> >start-up and client-side applications)
> >"-Xem server_static" - enable static optimization mode tuned for
> >long-running server-side applications
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Pavel
> >
> >On 11/14/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Pavel,
> >> Thanks for your comments. I'll work through the examples and post an
> >> updated patch soon.
> >> As for the Configuring VM operation - can we at least have a couple
> of
> >> examples in the form of scenarios or something? The wiki page only
> gives
> >> a reference, an enumeration of available options. Using these might
> not
> >> always be transparent. I know it's tutorial-level info, but why not
> have
> >> it? Giving a show-case of customizing vm to a specific need would be
> >> great.
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >> Nadya Morozova
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: Pavel Ozhdikhin [mailto:pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com]
> >> >Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:23 AM
> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >Subject: Re: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
> DRL"
> >> is
> >> >outdated
> >> >
> >> >Nadya,
> >> >
> >> >I've looked through your patch. Please see my comments in JIRA:
> >> >http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
> >> >
> >> >> Do you think we can add a link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to
> wiki)?
> >> >
> >> >I don't think we need it - it is rather info for developers than for
> >> users.
> >> >
> >> >> Any ideas on what to write in Configuring vm operation?
> >> >
> >> >This section will duplicate the info from the Wiki page. Since we
> gave
> >> a
> >> >link to that page in the "overview" we may skip creation of a
> separate
> >> >section here.
> >> >
> >> >Thanks,
> >> >Pavel
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On 11/13/06, Morozova, Nadezhda <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Successfully added a patch to fix getting Started outdated content
> to
> >> >> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150.
> >> >> The patch is not final - need help to add more content. The
> current
> >> >> structure is:
> >> >> - overview
> >> >> - running an app
> >> >> - eclipse-related (now much shorter)
> >> >>        -- running an app
> >> >>        -- debugging an app
> >> >> - configuring vm operation (empty)
> >> >>
> >> >> Questions: how do you like the current patch? Do you think we can
> add
> >> a
> >> >> link to debugging vm&jit doc (or to wiki)? Any ideas on what to
> write
> >> in
> >> >> Configuring vm operation?
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank you,
> >> >> Nadya Morozova
> >> >>
> >> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> >> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:00 PM
> >> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> is
> >> >> >outdated
> >> >> >
> >> >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> >> >> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
> >> >> >> >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
> >> >> >> >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> >> >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
> DRL"
> >> is
> >> >> >> >outdated
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> >> >> >> >> Ok,
> >> >> >> >> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
> to
> >> get
> >> >> an
> >> >> >> >> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can
> then
> >> >> work
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> improve it.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >OK, I am "watching" it
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
> >> >> how-tos.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >To summarize:
> >> >> >> >* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they
> are
> >> for
> >> >> >> >  eclipse+drlvm page)
> >> >> >> >* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind
> of
> >> >> >> >  links we have"
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Am I right?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> [Nadya]
> >> >> >> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
> >> out
> >> >> >> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
> >> law,
> >> >> >not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
> >> >> >desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for
> all
> >> >> your
> >> >> >> help.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >u r welcome
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> Thank you,
> >> >> >> >> Nadya Morozova
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
> Pasko
> >> >> >> >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
> >> >> >> >> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
> >> DRL"
> >> >> is
> >> >> >> >> outdated
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > Egor,
> >> >> >> >> > I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
> >> >> perceptions
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >> > various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a
> tutorial
> >> -
> >> >> it's
> >> >> >> >> more
> >> >> >> >> > of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write
> this
> >> >> "How
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> > write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for
> "DRLVM
> >> >> >> >> Command-line
> >> >> >> >> > Args Tutorial"?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> on Wikipedia:
> >> >> >> >> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how
> to
> >> >> >> >> accomplish
> >> >> >> >>   some specific task
> >> >> >> >> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media
> created
> >> for
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> yes, I mix those terms :)
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics
> on
> >> >> >> another
> >> >> >> >> > page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki,
> but a
> >> >> short
> >> >> >> >> > howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common
> >> options,
> >> >> >> >> solving
> >> >> >> >> > typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
> >> >> >> >> > Does anybody volunteer to help?
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for
> the
> >> >> howto
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > Thank you,
> >> >> >> >> > Nadya Morozova
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >> > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
> >> Pasko
> >> >> >> >> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
> >> >> >> >> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
> with
> >> >> DRL"
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> >> > outdated
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > Alexei,
> >> >> >> >> > > Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do
> not
> >> >> think
> >> >> >> ours
> >> >> >> >> > is
> >> >> >> >> > > ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a
> >> >> tutorial.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
> >> >> >> >> > > If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd
> be
> >> >> happy
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> > help
> >> >> >> >> > > though.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one
> for
> >> VIM
> >> >> :)
> >> >> >> >> > some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony",
> and
> >> then
> >> >> >> >> > "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > Thank you,
> >> >> >> >> > > Nadya Morozova
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >> > > From: Fedotov, Alexei A
> [mailto:alexei.a.fedotov@intel.com]
> >> >> >> >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
> >> >> >> >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> >> >> > > Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
> started
> >> >> with
> >> >> >> >> DRL"
> >> >> >> >> > is
> >> >> >> >> > > outdated
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > Guys,
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I
> >> don't
> >> >> >> need
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > > VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was
> >> useful.
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > >       +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor
> >> changes
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to
> >> use
> >> >> >> Harmony
> >> >> >> >> > for
> >> >> >> >> > > Harmony development. I liked that idea.
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > With best regards,
> >> >> >> >> > > Alexei Fedotov,
> >> >> >> >> > > Intel Java & XML Engineering
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >-----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >> > > >From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> Egor
> >> >> Pasko
> >> >> >> >> > > >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
> >> >> >> >> > > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> >> >> > > >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
> >> with
> >> >> >> DRL"
> >> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> >> > > >outdated
> >> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin
> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> Nadya,
> >> >> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's
> remove
> >> all
> >> >> >> >> current
> >> >> >> >> > > >content
> >> >> >> >> > > >> and write something like following:
> >> >> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences
> from
> >> >> other
> >> >> >> >> Java
> >> >> >> >> > > >> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build
> it
> >> >> (here
> >> >> >> goes
> >> >> >> >> > > link to
> >> >> >> >> > > >> readme with build instructions) and run as any other
> >> Java
> >> >> VM.
> >> >> >> For
> >> >> >> >> > > >commonly
> >> >> >> >> > > >> used command-line options please look into the Wiki
> page
> >> >> (link
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> > > >Salikh's
> >> >> >> >> > > >> page or to the document)."
> >> >> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >> What do you think?
> >> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
> >> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> Thanks,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> Pavel
> >> >> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> >> >> > > >> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko
> >> >> >> <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> >> > > wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda
> Morozova
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Good day to you, Egor!
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > evening, dark and snowy evening :)
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > What do you say about the getting started doc?
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that
> Harmony
> >> >> >> operates
> >> >> >> >> > near
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all
> >> >> specifics
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> >> in
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki
> for
> >> an
> >> >> >> extra
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting
> >> the
> >> >> >> page).
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting
> Started".
> >> >> So,
> >> >> >> +1
> >> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> > > Pavel
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > Ozhdikhin here.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas
> for
> >> >> >> >> improvement
> >> >> >> >> > > from
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > him:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm,
> >> Tomcat
> >> >> >> has
> >> >> >> >> it
> >> >> >> >> > > with
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > links to google search. We can have something as
> soon
> >> as
> >> >> we
> >> >> >> get
> >> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> >> > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > desired TLP :)
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems
> >> should
> >> >> be
> >> >> >> >> > > reported
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have
> >> something
> >> >> like
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto
> to
> >> the
> >> >> >> >> mailing
> >> >> >> >> > > list
> >> >> >> >> > > >:)
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Thank you,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Nadya Morozova
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf
> Of
> >> >> Egor
> >> >> >> >> Pasko
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
> >> started
> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> >> > DRL"
> >> >> >> >> > > is
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > outdated
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda
> Morozova
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Egor,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > I generally like the idea of improving
> navigation
> >> >> over
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> > site
> >> >> >> >> > > -
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am
> not
> >> >> sure
> >> >> >> >> > whether
> >> >> >> >> > > we
> >> >> >> >> > > >need
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > yet another separate page for
> >> introductory/guidance
> >> >> >> info. I
> >> >> >> >> > > hope
> >> >> >> >> > > >the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are
> >> mostly
> >> >> >> fine.
> >> >> >> >> > > However,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site
> >> visitors.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Getting started could be a more specific
> >> >> >> project-oriented
> >> >> >> >> > page.
> >> >> >> >> > > >There,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > you can tell people to go
> <link>download</link>,
> >> >> >> >> > > <link>build</link>
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > code. After which, they can start using it just
> as
> >> >> any
> >> >> >> >> other
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the
> >> exceptions,
> >> >> see
> >> >> >> >> our
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > <link>wiki</link> pages.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the
> >> >> following
> >> >> >> >> > > options...
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > If they want to read more on our VM, they can
> >> visit
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > <link>component</link> page. If no website page
> >> >> contains
> >> >> >> an
> >> >> >> >> > > answer
> >> >> >> >> > > >-
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > .. or something like that :)
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But
> this
> >> >> morning
> >> >> >> I
> >> >> >> >> > woke
> >> >> >> >> > > up
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > and looked the site structure with the eye of a
> >> >> beginner.
> >> >> >> And
> >> >> >> >> > > could
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > not find any obvius flaws in the main structure.
> >> >> Left-side
> >> >> >> >> > > collection
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > of links is in a very good shape, good for
> >> >> beginner-level
> >> >> >> >> > > navigation
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > and contains almost all links you listed here.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > This was a really refreshing morning :)
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > I'll ask some guys who are new to the project,
> how
> >> they
> >> >> >> feel
> >> >> >> >> > > about
> >> >> >> >> > > >the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > site. And will report back, if I find something.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Thank you,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Nadya Morozova
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On
> Behalf
> >> Of
> >> >> Egor
> >> >> >> >> > Pasko
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
> >> >> started
> >> >> >> >> with
> >> >> >> >> > > DRL"
> >> >> >> >> > > >is
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > outdated
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel
> Ozhdikhin
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda
> >> >> >> >> > <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com>
> >> >> >> >> > > >wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Egor,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > +1 for
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
> >> >> >> collection
> >> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >> > > links
> >> >> >> >> > > >to
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short
> >> >> >> >> descriptions
> >> >> >> >> > > ("Site
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Map"
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > or something) so that people are
> comfortable
> >> >> >> floating
> >> >> >> >> > > around in
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > web.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > We already have one page having links to the
> >> >> resources
> >> >> >> >> > about
> >> >> >> >> > > >DRLVM:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >>
> >> >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Why do you think we need another one?
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > because it is only DRLVM.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > I think of something like "site map", a
> collection
> >> of
> >> >> >> >> links.
> >> >> >> >> > > Short
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > descriptions to some basic ones.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > +1 for
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for
> >> DRLVM"
> >> >> >> >> > (omitting
> >> >> >> >> > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > word
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally)
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Question on this one: will the page contain
> >> >> vm-only
> >> >> >> >> > > options?
> >> >> >> >> > > >What
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > about
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one
> >> place,
> >> >> but
> >> >> >> we
> >> >> >> >> > have
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > separate
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > I think we can describe basic options for
> every
> >> >> >> component
> >> >> >> >> > > there.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Only
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > those
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > that might be interesting for any user. The
> >> place
> >> >> for
> >> >> >> >> other
> >> >> >> >> > > >options
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > is
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > in
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a
> >> >> >> component.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > I thought of "most commonly used" options. They
> >> can
> >> >> >> >> possibly
> >> >> >> >> > be
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > grouped by components, but not necessary. I
> would
> >> >> group
> >> >> >> >> them
> >> >> >> >> > by
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious
> >> >> substance
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> >> > me.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it
> >> out.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to
> >> know
> >> >> >> about
> >> >> >> >> > JITs
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > switching?". I say YES, it helps users to
> >> investigate
> >> >> >> >> > problems,
> >> >> >> >> > > >which
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > helps us, developers, to react on users' input
> >> >> faster.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Other options? I can enlist the set of most
> >> commonly
> >> >> >> used
> >> >> >> >> by
> >> >> >> >> > > me. If
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > many of us put their lists here, we can sum
> them
> >> up
> >> >> >> quickly
> >> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> >> > > >make
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > a good (really useful) list of popular options.
> >> How
> >> >> >> about
> >> >> >> >> > that?
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options
> is
> >> a
> >> >> >> kind
> >> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >> > > limit
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Thanks,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Pavel
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > Thank you,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Nadya Morozova
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> >> Of
> >> >> >> >> Egor
> >> >> >> >> > > Pasko
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document
> >> "Getting
> >> >> >> started
> >> >> >> >> > > with
> >> >> >> >> > > >DRL"
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > is
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > outdated
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda
> >> >> Morozova
> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > All,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the
> >> sight
> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >> > > outdated
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Getting
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry
> to
> >> >> >> eliminate
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >page
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > as
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > such.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > We might reconsider some of its contents,
> >> >> change
> >> >> >> >> > > structure,
> >> >> >> >> > > >and
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > update
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > individual bits, but please think
> carefully
> >> >> before
> >> >> >> >> > > removing
> >> >> >> >> > > >the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > page.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > I think Getting Started (as the title
> shows)
> >> is
> >> >> >> aimed
> >> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> >> > > help
> >> >> >> >> > > >a
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > newbie
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > work with our vm. I know that many
> primarily
> >> >> >> >> interested
> >> >> >> >> > > in
> >> >> >> >> > > >other
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > things
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > - conformance, architecture, internal
> >> >> specifics.
> >> >> >> >> > However,
> >> >> >> >> > > we
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > should
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > also
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting
> >> >> started
> >> >> >> is
> >> >> >> >> now
> >> >> >> >> > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > *only*
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > doc
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You
> >> tell
> >> >> >> people
> >> >> >> >> > how
> >> >> >> >> > > to
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > download
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > and build, but almost nothing about how
> to
> >> run
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> >> > > configure
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > (with
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > exception of EM/JIT).
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > My suggestion would be to think of what
> you
> >> >> want
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> >> > tell
> >> >> >> >> > > >people
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > about
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > usage - with or without eclipse
> specifics.
> >> And
> >> >> >> store
> >> >> >> >> > this
> >> >> >> >> > > >info
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > on
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > page. I know it is hard - and I offer my
> >> help
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> >> > support
> >> >> >> >> > > in
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > this
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i
> might
> >> be
> >> >> >> >> > > inobjective
> >> >> >> >> > > >and
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > emotional :)
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Nadya,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > I believe, almost everyone coming across
> >> Harmony
> >> >> >> knows
> >> >> >> >> > how
> >> >> >> >> > > to
> >> >> >> >> > > >use
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > J5SE. We are striving for this
> compatibility,
> >> and
> >> >> we
> >> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> >> > > happy
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > that
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > So, I vote for:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > * removing the "Getting Started" (also
> because
> >> of
> >> >> >> >> > > irritating
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > windows
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > screenshots:)
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for
> >> DRLVM"
> >> >> >> >> > (omitting
> >> >> >> >> > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > word
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally)
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
> >> >> >> collection
> >> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> >> > > links
> >> >> >> >> > > >to
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short
> >> >> >> >> descriptions
> >> >> >> >> > > ("Site
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Map"
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > or something) so that people are
> comfortable
> >> >> >> floating
> >> >> >> >> > > around in
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > web.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > From: Mikhail Fursov
> >> >> >> [mailto:mike.fursov@gmail.com]
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03
> PM
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document
> >> "Getting
> >> >> >> >> started
> >> >> >> >> > > with
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > DRL"
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > is
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > outdated
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > It's not a hard to write a documenation
> >> once,
> >> >> it's
> >> >> >> >> hard
> >> >> >> >> > > to
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > support
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > it
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > :)
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > More problems:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > 3) Do we really need this page today?
> AFAIU
> >> >> users
> >> >> >> >> > expect
> >> >> >> >> > > >Harmony
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > VM is
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > able
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > to run the same apps as RI..
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > ?
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin
> >> >> >> >> <pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> >> > > >wrote:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Hello all,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > I've read through the "Getting Started
> >> with
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > DRL<
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
> >> >> >> >> > > .
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > html
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > >"
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > document on the Harmony web and found
> it
> >> >> >> completely
> >> >> >> >> > > >outdated,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > for
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > example:
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - the term DRL is used instead of
> DRLVM
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are
> >> obsolete
> >> >> -
> >> >> >> we
> >> >> >> >> > don't
> >> >> >> >> > > >need
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > them
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > anymore
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    to run Eclipse. It can be started
> with
> >> >> DRLVM
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> >> > > same
> >> >> >> >> > > >way
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > as
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > with
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > any
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > other
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    VM.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - We don't need to set PATH and
> >> >> >> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
> >> >> >> >> > > anymore,
> >> >> >> >> > > >at
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > least
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > on
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    Windows/MSVC
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >    - ij was renamed to java
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > We took a big step to unification with
> >> other
> >> >> >> Java
> >> >> >> >> VMs
> >> >> >> >> > > and
> >> >> >> >> > > >now
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > we don't need anything specific to run
> >> >> Eclipse,
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> >> > > >example.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > After
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > removing
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > all irrelevant info the document would
> >> >> contain
> >> >> >> only
> >> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> >> > > >list
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > of
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > command-line
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > options. I think we can move this list
> to
> >> a
> >> >> >> >> separate
> >> >> >> >> > > >document
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > (Wiki,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Developer's Guide?) and remove the
> >> "Getting
> >> >> >> >> Started"
> >> >> >> >> > > >itself.
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Any opinions?
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > Pavel
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > <
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
> >> >> >> >> > > .
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > html
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > --
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > > Mikhail Fursov
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > --
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > > Egor Pasko
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > --
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > > Egor Pasko
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > --
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > > Egor Pasko
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > --
> >> >> >> >> > > >> > Egor Pasko
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >> >
> >> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> >> > > >--
> >> >> >> >> > > >Egor Pasko
> >> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > --
> >> >> >> >> > Egor Pasko
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> >> Egor Pasko
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >--
> >> >> >> >Egor Pasko
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--
> >> >> >Egor Pasko
> >> >>
> >>
>

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