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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <g...@pobox.com>
Subject Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated
Date Tue, 14 Nov 2006 17:20:45 GMT
It's hard for all of us.  Better to be safe than sorry.

The doc content should include the license header in comment, and there 
is a clear (c) at the bottom.

The license header refers to the NOTICE file.

Thanks for being conservative about this - it keeps us from getting into 
trouble.

(I was just giggling about the "Database" reference...)

geir


Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
> Ok, thanks.
> I somehow feel dumb with anything that deals with legal - copyrights,
> contracts, licenses...oh! I'd erase all excess disclaimers from our
> website with pleasure :) 
> 
> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:45 PM
>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>> outdated
>>
>> "Additional terms from the Database" ? LOL
>>
>> Just get rid of it all.  Those terms are in our notice file, and that's
>> enough.  Unicode didn't put them there, anyway.
>>
>> geir
>>
>>
>> Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
>>> html#Disclaimer
>>>
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/developers_guide
>>> .html - these seem to have apache and intel copyright (can be
> resolved)
>>> + the Unicode disclaimer.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:14 PM
>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>>>> outdated
>>>>
>>>> what's the link we're talking about?
>>>>
>>>> Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
>>>>> What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> is
>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's an
>>> ASF
>>>>>> copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be
>>>>>> auto-generated at the bottom anyway)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> geir
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Egor Pasko wrote:
>>>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
> DRL"
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Ok,
>>>>>>>>>> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to
>>> get
>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can
> then
>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> improve it.
>>>>>>>>> OK, I am "watching" it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
>>>>> how-tos.
>>>>>>>>> To summarize:
>>>>>>>>> * we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are
>>> for
>>>>>>>>>  eclipse+drlvm page)
>>>>>>>>> * we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind
> of
>>>>>>>>>  links we have"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am I right?
>>>>>>>> [Nadya]
>>>>>>>> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
>>> out
>>>>>>>> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>>>>>>> remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
>>> law,
>>>>>>> not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
>>>>>>> desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for
> all
>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>> u r welcome
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
>>> DRL"
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>>> I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
>>> perceptions
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial
> -
>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this
>>>>> "How
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
>>>>>>>>>> Command-line
>>>>>>>>>>> Args Tutorial"?
>>>>>>>>>> on Wikipedia:
>>>>>>>>>> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how
> to
>>>>>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>>>>>>   some specific task
>>>>>>>>>> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created
>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> yes, I mix those terms :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on
>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>>> page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a
>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>>>> howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common
> options,
>>>>>>>>>> solving
>>>>>>>>>>> typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> Does anybody volunteer to help?
>>>>>>>>>> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for
> the
>>>>> howto
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not
>>> think
>>>>>>>> ours
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a
>>>>> tutorial.
>>>>>>>>>>> we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be
>>> happy
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>>>>> well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for
>>> VIM
>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>> some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and
>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>> "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:alexei.a.fedotov@intel.com]
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I
> don't
>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 	+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use
>>>>>>>> Harmony
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harmony development. I liked that idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel Java & XML Engineering
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
> with
>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove
> all
>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and write something like following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from
>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> Java
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it
> (here
>>>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>>>>>>> link to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java
>>> VM.
>>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>>>>>> commonly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page
>>> (link
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Salikh's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page or to the document)."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>> <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good day to you, Egor!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, dark and snowy evening :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you say about the getting started doc?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony
>>>>>>>> operates
>>>>>>>>>>> near
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all
> specifics
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an
>>>>>>>> extra
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the
>>>>>>>> page).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started".
> So,
>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ozhdikhin here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for
>>>>>>>>>> improvement
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to google search. We can have something as soon as
> we
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> desired TLP :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should
> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> reported
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something
>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the
>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
>>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I generally like the idea of improving navigation over
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> site
>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure
>>>>>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet another separate page for introductory/guidance
>>>>>>>> info. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly
>>>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting started could be a more specific
>>>>>>>> project-oriented
>>>>>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can tell people to go <link>download</link>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>build</link>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code. After which, they can start using it just as any
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions,
> see
>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>wiki</link> pages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To use the vm, readers might need to use the following
>>>>>>>>>>>> options...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>component</link> page. If no website page
> contains
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .. or something like that :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this
> morning
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> woke
>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looked the site structure with the eye of a
> beginner.
>>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not find any obvius flaws in the main structure.
> Left-side
>>>>>>>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of links is in a very good shape, good for
> beginner-level
>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and contains almost all links you listed here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This was a really refreshing morning :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they
>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> site. And will report back, if I find something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> Egor
>>>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda
>>>>>>>>>>> <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
>>>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main website and other resources with short
>>>>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>>>>>>> ("Site
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Map"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something) so that people are comfortable
>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>> around in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We already have one page having links to the resources
>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRLVM:
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you think we need another one?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it is only DRLVM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think of something like "site map", a collection of
>>>>>>>>>> links.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> descriptions to some basic ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM"
>>>>>>>>>>> (omitting
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "supported" intentionally)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only
>>>>>>>>>>>> options?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we can describe basic options for every
>>>>>>>> component
>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that might be interesting for any user. The place for
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a
>>>>>>>> component.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can
>>>>>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group
>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> JITs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate
>>>>>>>>>>> problems,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly
>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>> me. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up
>>>>>>>> quickly
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a good (really useful) list of popular options. How
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a
>>>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> limit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>> Egor
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
>>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of
>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Started document. However, I'd not hurry to
>>>>>>>> eliminate
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We might reconsider some of its contents, change
>>>>>>>>>>>> structure,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individual bits, but please think carefully before
>>>>>>>>>>>> removing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is
>>>>>>>> aimed
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> newbie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work with our vm. I know that many primarily
>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - conformance, architecture, internal specifics.
>>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *only*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> download
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and build, but almost nothing about how to run and
>>>>>>>>>>>> configure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exception of EM/JIT).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion would be to think of what you want
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And
>>>>>>>> store
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and
>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be
>>>>>>>>>>>> inobjective
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotional :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony
>>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> happy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I vote for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * removing the "Getting Started" (also because of
>>>>>>>>>>>> irritating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screenshots:)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM"
>>>>>>>>>>> (omitting
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "supported" intentionally)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
>>>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main website and other resources with short
>>>>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>>>>>>> ("Site
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Map"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something) so that people are comfortable
>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>> around in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Mikhail Fursov
>>>>>>>> [mailto:mike.fursov@gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
>>>>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's
>>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More problems:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users
>>>>>>>>>>> expect
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harmony
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VM is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to run the same apps as RI..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin
>>>>>>>>>> <pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've read through the "Getting Started with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> document on the Harmony web and found it
>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete -
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    VM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - We don't need to set PATH and
>>>>>>>> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Windows/MSVC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - ij was renamed to java
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We took a big step to unification with other
>>>>>>>> Java
>>>>>>>>>> VMs
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse,
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all irrelevant info the document would contain
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> command-line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options. I think we can move this list to a
>>>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> document
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wiki,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting
>>>>>>>>>> Started"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikhail Fursov
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
> 

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