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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <g...@pobox.com>
Subject Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated
Date Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:44:42 GMT
"Additional terms from the Database" ? LOL

Just get rid of it all.  Those terms are in our notice file, and that's 
enough.  Unicode didn't put them there, anyway.

geir


Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
> html#Disclaimer 
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/developers_guide
> .html - these seem to have apache and intel copyright (can be resolved)
> + the Unicode disclaimer.
> 
> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:14 PM
>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>> outdated
>>
>> what's the link we're talking about?
>>
>> Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
>>> What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>>>> outdated
>>>>
>>>> as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's an
> ASF
>>>> copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be
>>>> auto-generated at the bottom anyway)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> geir
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Egor Pasko wrote:
>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
>>> is
>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ok,
>>>>>>>> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150
to
> get
>>> an
>>>>>>>> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can
then
>>> work
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> improve it.
>>>>>>> OK, I am "watching" it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
>>> how-tos.
>>>>>>> To summarize:
>>>>>>> * we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are
> for
>>>>>>>  eclipse+drlvm page)
>>>>>>> * we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind
of
>>>>>>>  links we have"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am I right?
>>>>>> [Nadya]
>>>>>> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
> out
>>>>>> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>>>>> remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
> law,
>>>>> not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
>>>>> desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all
>>> your
>>>>>> help.
>>>>> u r welcome
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
Pasko
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
> DRL"
>>> is
>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>> I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
> perceptions
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial
-
>>> it's
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write
this
>>> "How
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for
"DRLVM
>>>>>>>> Command-line
>>>>>>>>> Args Tutorial"?
>>>>>>>> on Wikipedia:
>>>>>>>> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of
how to
>>>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>>>>   some specific task
>>>>>>>> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created
> for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yes, I mix those terms :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics
on
>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>> page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki,
but a
>>> short
>>>>>>>>> howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common
options,
>>>>>>>> solving
>>>>>>>>> typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
>>>>>>>>> Does anybody volunteer to help?
>>>>>>>> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for
the
>>> howto
>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
Pasko
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
with
> DRL"
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Alexei,
>>>>>>>>>> Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but
I do not
> think
>>>>>> ours
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require
a
>>> tutorial.
>>>>>>>>> we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
>>>>>>>>>> If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now,
I'd be
> happy
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>>> well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the
one for
> VIM
>>> :)
>>>>>>>>> some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony",
and
> then
>>>>>>>>> "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:alexei.a.fedotov@intel.com]
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
started
> with
>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial.
I don't
>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it
was useful.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 	+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor
changes
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal
was to use
>>>>>> Harmony
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Harmony development. I liked that idea.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> With best regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov,
>>>>>>>>>> Intel Java & XML Engineering
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf
Of Egor
> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
started with
>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One more proposal about "Getting Started":
let's remove all
>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>> and write something like following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences
from
> other
>>>>>>>> Java
>>>>>>>>>>>> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can
just build it (here
>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>>>>> link to
>>>>>>>>>>>> readme with build instructions) and run as
any other Java
> VM.
>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>>>> commonly
>>>>>>>>>>>> used command-line options please look into
the Wiki page
> (link
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> Salikh's
>>>>>>>>>>>> page or to the document)."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>> 1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko
>>>>>> <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda
Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good day to you, Egor!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, dark and snowy evening :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you say about the getting
started doc?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I expressed it recently. General idea
is that Harmony
>>>>>> operates
>>>>>>>>> near
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same as other JSE implementations.
Almost all specifics
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra options which we started collecting
on Wiki for an
>>>>>> extra
>>>>>>>>>>>>> HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh
for starting the
>>>>>> page).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting
Started". So,
>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ozhdikhin here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website.
Ideas for
>>>>>>>> improvement
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> him:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) site-local search is useful for a
beginner. Hm, Tomcat
>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to google search. We can have something
as soon as we
>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> desired TLP :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems
should be
>>>>>>>>>> reported
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the mailing list. Commercial websites
have something
> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "support/suggestions mailto". We can
point mailto to the
>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org]
On Behalf Of Egor
>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55
AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document
"Getting started
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony
Nadezhda Morozova
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I generally like the idea of
improving navigation over
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> site
>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's never too much of that.
However, I am not sure
>>>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet another separate page for
introductory/guidance
>>>>>> info. I
>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting page + the generic pages
we have are mostly
>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adding a link here and there
to lead site visitors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting started could be a more
specific
>>>>>> project-oriented
>>>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>>>>> There,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can tell people to go <link>download</link>,
>>>>>>>>>> <link>build</link>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code. After which, they can start
using it just as any
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>RI-compatible</link>
jdk. With the exceptions, see
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>wiki</link>
pages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To use the vm, readers might
need to use the following
>>>>>>>>>> options...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they want to read more on
our VM, they can visit the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>component</link>
page. If no website page contains
>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can read <link>wiki
faqa</link>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .. or something like that :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts
:) But this morning
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> woke
>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looked the site structure with
the eye of a beginner.
>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not find any obvius flaws in the
main structure. Left-side
>>>>>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of links is in a very good shape,
good for beginner-level
>>>>>>>>>> navigation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and contains almost all links you
listed here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This was a really refreshing morning
:)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll ask some guys who are new to
the project, how they
>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> site. And will report back, if I
find something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Refreshing morning is over, now back
to work..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org]
On Behalf Of Egor
>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 09,
2006 5:33 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The
document "Getting started
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony
Pavel Ozhdikhin
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda
>>>>>>>>> <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just idea: "Getting Started"
may contain a
>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main website and other
resources with short
>>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>>>>> ("Site
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Map"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something) so that
people are comfortable
>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>> around in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We already have one page
having links to the resources
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> DRLVM:
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you think we need
another one?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it is only DRLVM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think of something like "site
map", a collection of
>>>>>>>> links.
>>>>>>>>>> Short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> descriptions to some basic ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * preparing the "Commonly
Used Options for DRLVM"
>>>>>>>>> (omitting
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "supported" intentionally)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Question on this one:
will the page contain vm-only
>>>>>>>>>> options?
>>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JIT, GC, other? I'd have
them all in one place, but
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> docs for EM/jit stuff.
What do you say?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we can describe basic
options for every
>>>>>> component
>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that might be interesting
for any user. The place for
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the run-time help or Developer's
Guide for a
>>>>>> component.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought of "most commonly used"
options. They can
>>>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grouped by components, but not
necessary. I would group
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use-cases. BTW, "any user" is
not an obvious substance
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the list is not obvious,
we need to work it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline
JIT compiler"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising
JIT compiler"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xtrace:em <- print method
compilation events"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The 'big' question is: "does
'any user' need to know
>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> JITs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switching?". I say YES, it helps
users to investigate
>>>>>>>>> problems,
>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helps us, developers, to react
on users' input faster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other options? I can enlist the
set of most commonly
>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>> me. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many of us put their lists here,
we can sum them up
>>>>>> quickly
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a good (really useful) list of
popular options. How
>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, the list should not be too
big. 25 options is a
>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> limit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org]
On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>> Egor
>>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November
09, 2006 5:51 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm]
The document "Getting
>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21B day of Apache
Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to share
everyone's grief at the sight of
>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Started document.
However, I'd not hurry to
>>>>>> eliminate
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We might reconsider
some of its contents, change
>>>>>>>>>> structure,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individual bits,
but please think carefully before
>>>>>>>>>> removing
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think Getting Started
(as the title shows) is
>>>>>> aimed
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> newbie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work with our vm.
I know that many primarily
>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - conformance, architecture,
internal specifics.
>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think how the vm
is used. AFAIK, Getting started
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *only*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that tries to show
how to use our vm. You tell
>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> download
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and build, but almost
nothing about how to run and
>>>>>>>>>> configure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exception of EM/JIT).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion would
be to think of what you want
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage - with or without
eclipse specifics. And
>>>>>> store
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page. I know it is
hard - and I offer my help and
>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burdensome initiative.
Any thoughts? i might be
>>>>>>>>>> inobjective
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotional :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe, almost everyone
coming across Harmony
>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> J5SE. We are striving
for this compatibility, and we
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> happy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all DRLVM-specific pecularities
are gone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I vote for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * removing the "Getting
Started" (also because of
>>>>>>>>>> irritating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screenshots:)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * preparing the "Commonly
Used Options for DRLVM"
>>>>>>>>> (omitting
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "supported" intentionally)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just idea: "Getting Started"
may contain a
>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main website and other
resources with short
>>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>>>>> ("Site
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Map"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something) so that
people are comfortable
>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>> around in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Mikhail Fursov
>>>>>> [mailto:mike.fursov@gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday,
November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm]
The document "Getting
>>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not a hard to
write a documenation once, it's
>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More problems:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) -Xem options are
obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) -Xjit options
are also obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) Do we really need
this page today? AFAIU users
>>>>>>>>> expect
>>>>>>>>>>> Harmony
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VM is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to run the same apps
as RI..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/06, Pavel
Ozhdikhin
>>>>>>>> <pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've read through
the "Getting Started with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> document on the
Harmony web and found it
>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>> outdated,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - the term
DRL is used instead of DRLVM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - eclipse.bat
and eclipse.sh are obsolete -
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    to run Eclipse.
It can be started with DRLVM
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    VM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - We don't
need to set PATH and
>>>>>> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
>>>>>>>>>> anymore,
>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Windows/MSVC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - ij was renamed
to java
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We took a big
step to unification with other
>>>>>> Java
>>>>>>>> VMs
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't need
anything specific to run Eclipse,
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> example.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all irrelevant
info the document would contain
>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> command-line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options. I think
we can move this list to a
>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>>>>> document
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wiki,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Developer's Guide?)
and remove the "Getting
>>>>>>>> Started"
>>>>>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikhail Fursov
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
> 

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