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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [Fwd: Re: Interesting discoveries playing around with japitools]
Date Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:39:19 GMT
Dalibor Topic wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi <stefano <at> apache.org> writes:
>> Sometimes some climbers manage to get to the other side to find that
>> some people are very welcoming and appreciative of cultural differences
>> while others not so much.
> What killed Harmony as the project it was planned to be wasn't people, in my
> opinion. Everyone put a lot of effort into it.
> It was stuck in time for months, betwen a non-existent GPLv3, and a non-existant
> ASF third party license policy, without either the ASF having the ability to
> accept code under anything other then the apache license, and the FSF having the
> ability to relicense Classpath to apache license exclusively, without screwing
> developers of GPLd VMs out of a class library. Everyone was running in circles.
> Both the ASF and FSF have learned from that failure. ASF figured out that having
> a third party license policy would work greatly in their favour, the FSF figured
> out that they'd better listen to ASF's ideas and make sure GPLv3 and all that
> stuff is actually fine.
> Structurally, I'd say that the ASF was not the right place at the right time to
> pull such a project off, since we got stuck so hard on apparently insurmountable
> issues of policy. Same would have most likely happened with the FSF, though, so
> with the hindsight, I think a third party, neutral ground without policies
> already cast in stone would have worked out much better. I guess Sun figured
> that out, too, and I hope they are successful.
> After the Harmony experience, I don't think that ASF or FSF are the perfect
> place for a project that goes wildly beyond their respective constituencies
> (i.e. the people who really, really like the one true apache way or the one true
> FSF way). On the other hand, the split has worked in each project's favor, to
> some degree. It has also left a lot of people who put their heart in it rather
> bitter about the failure to make it all work as planned.
> Maybe one day we'll all meet together and exchange those war stories over
> beverages in bar. It's been a great pleasure to help get all of this rolling
> with you, Geir, Leo, Davanum, and the other guys, and watch Geir and the team
> make Harmony rock.


But there is one thing to be said: I still believe that both the ASF and
the FSF have much stronger community nurturing skills than Sun.

Sun going GPL is not going to change that *and* will allow "free java"
to get to certification faster.

So, pretty soon, there will be three, not one, certified FOSS java
virtual machines.

Don't know about you, I would call that a resounding success for those
like us who wanted the ability to see the results of the FOSS
development and innovation model applied to the inner workings of a Java
virtual machine.

And, if in doing so, a more compatible GPLv3 comes along, helped by
those like us who would enjoy more license compatibility between the ASF
and the FSF, I call that a success as well.

So, yes, maybe we could have done it differently, in a more neutral
ground. But even so, it wasn't so bad after all :-)


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