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From "Konovalova, Svetlana" <svetlana.konoval...@intel.com>
Subject RE: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is outdated
Date Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:45:11 GMT
Folks,

I've created the patch to remove unnecessary copyright and legal
information from the website. Please have a look (HARMONY-2199).

Best regards,
Sveta


-----Original Message-----
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:21 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated

It's hard for all of us.  Better to be safe than sorry.

The doc content should include the license header in comment, and there 
is a clear (c) at the bottom.

The license header refers to the NOTICE file.

Thanks for being conservative about this - it keeps us from getting into

trouble.

(I was just giggling about the "Database" reference...)

geir


Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
> Ok, thanks.
> I somehow feel dumb with anything that deals with legal - copyrights,
> contracts, licenses...oh! I'd erase all excess disclaimers from our
> website with pleasure :) 
> 
> Thank you, 
> Nadya Morozova
>  
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:45 PM
>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
>> outdated
>>
>> "Additional terms from the Database" ? LOL
>>
>> Just get rid of it all.  Those terms are in our notice file, and
that's
>> enough.  Unicode didn't put them there, anyway.
>>
>> geir
>>
>>
>> Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
>>> html#Disclaimer
>>>
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/developers_guide
>>> .html - these seem to have apache and intel copyright (can be
> resolved)
>>> + the Unicode disclaimer.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:14 PM
>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
>>>> outdated
>>>>
>>>> what's the link we're talking about?
>>>>
>>>> Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
>>>>> What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
> is
>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright.  if it's
an
>>> ASF
>>>>>> copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should
be
>>>>>> auto-generated at the bottom anyway)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> geir
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Egor Pasko wrote:
>>>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
> DRL"
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Ok,
>>>>>>>>>> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to
>>> get
>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can
> then
>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> improve it.
>>>>>>>>> OK, I am "watching" it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
>>>>> how-tos.
>>>>>>>>> To summarize:
>>>>>>>>> * we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they
are
>>> for
>>>>>>>>>  eclipse+drlvm page)
>>>>>>>>> * we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind
> of
>>>>>>>>>  links we have"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am I right?
>>>>>>>> [Nadya]
>>>>>>>> Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
>>> out
>>>>>>>> copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
>>>>>>> remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
>>> law,
>>>>>>> not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what
I
>>>>>>> desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for
> all
>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>> u r welcome
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
Pasko
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
>>> DRL"
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>>> I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
>>> perceptions
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial
> -
>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write
this
>>>>> "How
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
>>>>>>>>>> Command-line
>>>>>>>>>>> Args Tutorial"?
>>>>>>>>>> on Wikipedia:
>>>>>>>>>> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how
> to
>>>>>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>>>>>>   some specific task
>>>>>>>>>> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media
created
>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>   purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> yes, I mix those terms :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics
on
>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>>> page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but
a
>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>>>> howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common
> options,
>>>>>>>>>> solving
>>>>>>>>>>> typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> Does anybody volunteer to help?
>>>>>>>>>> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for
> the
>>>>> howto
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not
>>> think
>>>>>>>> ours
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a
>>>>> tutorial.
>>>>>>>>>>> we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So +1 for having a nice good  tutorial ... one day.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be
>>> happy
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>>>>> well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for
>>> VIM
>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>> some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and
>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>> "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:alexei.a.fedotov@intel.com]
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Guys,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I
> don't
>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was
useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 	+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to
use
>>>>>>>> Harmony
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harmony development. I liked that idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Fedotov,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Intel Java & XML Engineering
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Egor
>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
> with
>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove
> all
>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>>>> content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and write something like following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from
>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> Java
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it
> (here
>>>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>>>>>>> link to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java
>>> VM.
>>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>>>>>> commonly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page
>>> (link
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Salikh's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page or to the document)."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>> <egor.pasko@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good day to you, Egor!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, dark and snowy evening :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you say about the getting started doc?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony
>>>>>>>> operates
>>>>>>>>>>> near
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all
> specifics
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an
>>>>>>>> extra
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the
>>>>>>>> page).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started".
> So,
>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ozhdikhin here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for
>>>>>>>>>> improvement
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm,
Tomcat
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> links to google search. We can have something as soon as
> we
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> desired TLP :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should
> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> reported
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something
>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the
>>>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Egor
>>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I generally like the idea of improving navigation over
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> site
>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure
>>>>>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet another separate page for introductory/guidance
>>>>>>>> info. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly
>>>>>>>> fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting started could be a more specific
>>>>>>>> project-oriented
>>>>>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can tell people to go <link>download</link>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>build</link>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code. After which, they can start using it just as any
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions,
> see
>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>wiki</link> pages.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To use the vm, readers might need to use the following
>>>>>>>>>>>> options...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit
the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <link>component</link> page. If no website page
> contains
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> answer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .. or something like that :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this
> morning
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> woke
>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looked the site structure with the eye of a
> beginner.
>>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not find any obvius flaws in the main structure.
> Left-side
>>>>>>>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of links is in a very good shape, good for
> beginner-level
>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and contains almost all links you listed here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This was a really refreshing morning :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they
>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> site. And will report back, if I find something.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> Egor
>>>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
started
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda
>>>>>>>>>>> <nadezhda.morozova@intel.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
>>>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main website and other resources with short
>>>>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>>>>>>> ("Site
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Map"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something) so that people are comfortable
>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>> around in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We already have one page having links to the
resources
>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRLVM:
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you think we need another one?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it is only DRLVM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think of something like "site map", a collection of
>>>>>>>>>> links.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> descriptions to some basic ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM"
>>>>>>>>>>> (omitting
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "supported" intentionally)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only
>>>>>>>>>>>> options?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we can describe basic options for every
>>>>>>>> component
>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that might be interesting for any user. The place for
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a
>>>>>>>> component.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can
>>>>>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grouped by components, but not necessary. I would
group
>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> JITs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate
>>>>>>>>>>> problems,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly
>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>> me. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up
>>>>>>>> quickly
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a good (really useful) list of popular options. How
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a
>>>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> limit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: news [mailto:news@sea.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>> Egor
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
>>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of
>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Started document. However, I'd not hurry to
>>>>>>>> eliminate
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We might reconsider some of its contents, change
>>>>>>>>>>>> structure,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individual bits, but please think carefully before
>>>>>>>>>>>> removing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is
>>>>>>>> aimed
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> newbie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work with our vm. I know that many primarily
>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - conformance, architecture, internal specifics.
>>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *only*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> download
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and build, but almost nothing about how to run and
>>>>>>>>>>>> configure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exception of EM/JIT).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion would be to think of what you want
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And
>>>>>>>> store
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and
>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be
>>>>>>>>>>>> inobjective
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emotional :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nadya,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony
>>>>>>>> knows
>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> happy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I vote for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * removing the "Getting Started" (also because of
>>>>>>>>>>>> irritating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screenshots:)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM"
>>>>>>>>>>> (omitting
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "supported" intentionally)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
>>>>>>>> collection
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main website and other resources with short
>>>>>>>>>> descriptions
>>>>>>>>>>>> ("Site
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Map"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or something) so that people are comfortable
>>>>>>>> floating
>>>>>>>>>>>> around in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Mikhail Fursov
>>>>>>>> [mailto:mike.fursov@gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
>>>>>>>>>> started
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's
>>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More problems:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) -Xem options are obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users
>>>>>>>>>>> expect
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harmony
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VM is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to run the same apps as RI..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin
>>>>>>>>>> <pavel.ozhdikhin@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've read through the "Getting Started with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRL<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> document on the Harmony web and found it
>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete -
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    VM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - We don't need to set PATH and
>>>>>>>> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    Windows/MSVC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    - ij was renamed to java
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We took a big step to unification with other
>>>>>>>> Java
>>>>>>>>>> VMs
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse,
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all irrelevant info the document would contain
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> command-line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> options. I think we can move this list to a
>>>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> document
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Wiki,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting
>>>>>>>>>> Started"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pavel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikhail Fursov
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Egor Pasko
> 

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