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Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:38:13 -0400
From: Geir Magnusson Jr <geir@pobox.com>
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To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [general] compatibility packages
References: <636fd28e0608100120s701d9be4pfd964e890da4b22@mail.gmail.com>
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 <44DB2816.3040309@gmail.com> <20060810133840.GA7714@pogo.kaffe.org>
 <44DC9024.8050305@gmail.com> <20060812124255.GA23610@pogo.kaffe.org>
 <44DE1D91.8040604@pobox.com> <20060813013049.GB16820@pogo.kaffe.org>
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Dalibor Topic wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 12, 2006 at 02:27:29PM -0400, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>>
>> Dalibor Topic wrote:
>>> 'Harmony - runs 100% of apps Sun does (sure it's obviously a rubbish claim, 
>>> but you should trust us anyway on our other claims)' is not a very 
>>> compelling tag line either.
>> But this isn't what we're trying to say, so please don't put words in
>> our mouth.
>>
>> The issue is removing speedbumps (no matter who put them there) on the
>> road to users working with Harmony.
>>
>> People are busy, and don't generally have a lot of free time to tinker.
>>    Time is a very valuable and scarce thing.  If someone chooses to
>> *invest* some of their time trying out Harmony, lets make it as smooth
>> as possible, and be as appreciative as possible.
>>
>> Sure, they may be doing the Wrong Thing by using software that makes the
>> common mistake of using an internal Sun class, but that's really a
>> secondary concern.
> 
> I believe you've largely misunderstood what I said, unfortunately. There
> is no them vs. us here, and I am not trying to put words in mouths, or
> playing wiesel wording and framing games. 

Ok - sorry.

> 
> Look, I agree with pretty much with all you say, my point is that we 
> can't compete with Sun on the ability to run 100% of code written for 
> their VM, suncompat.jar or not. As Stefano said (he got the meaning 
> of what I tried to get accross), that's not a game we can win. But 
> we've got other qualities, as you've mentioned, and which matter to our 
> users. Noone is using our VMs for their sun.* classes.

And we're not doing this to be able to compete with Sun on their
implementation of sun.*.  We're doing it simply to make it easy for
people to *try* Harmony *right now*.

> 
> The only interaction we've had with users so far on this issue has
> shown that the user was able to spot a problem in his code, improve
> it, and contributed useful feedback. The first two things would not have
> happened if we had a suncompat.jar, and everyone seems to be better off
> with the current outcome. Was it a speedump? Maybe. It helped the user,
> though, and we should be as appreciative as possible about having such helpful
> speedbumps, IMHO, that make people aware of potential migration issues
> with their code, and make users come to us to give us their appreciatd 
> feedback in the first place, rather than speeding through without a ...
> (and here I lack a suitable driving analogy, but I hope you catch my 
> drift anyway)

What if the problem was in Weblogic?  What if the user couldn't get it
fixed?

geir


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