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From Oliver Deakin <oliver.dea...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: [classlib] Testing conventions - a proposal
Date Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:16:40 GMT
George Harley wrote:
> Oliver Deakin wrote:
>> George Harley wrote:
>>> <SNIP!>
>>> Here the annotation on MyTestClass applies to all of its test methods.
>>> So what are the well-known TestNG groups that we could define for 
>>> use inside Harmony ? Here are some of my initial thoughts:
>>> * type.impl  --  tests that are specific to Harmony
>> So tests are implicitly API unless specified otherwise?
>> I'm slightly confused by your definition of impl tests as "tests that 
>> are
>> specific to Harmony". Does this mean that impl tests are only
>> those that test classes in org.apache.harmony packages?
>> I thought that impl was our way of saying "tests that need to go on
>> the bootclasspath".
>> I think I just need a little clarification...
> Hi Oliver,
> I was using the definition of implementation-specific tests that we 
> currently have on the Harmony testing conventions web page. That is, 
> implementation-specific tests are those that are dependent on some 
> aspect of the Harmony implementation and would therefore not pass when 
> run against the RI or other conforming implementations. It's 
> orthogonal to the classpath/bootclasspath issue.

OK, that's what I imagined you meant. IMHO using api and impl
in this way makes the most sense (since, as you say, they do not
really relate to the classpath/bootclasspath issue).

So do we also need a pair of groups for classpath/bootclasspath
tests? I'm assuming that this is how we would handle this distinction,
rather than organising them into separate directories in the file system.

>>> * state.broken.<platform id>  --  tests bust on a specific platform
>>> * state.broken  --  tests broken on every platform but we want to 
>>> decide whether or not to run from our suite configuration
>>> * os.<platform id>  --  tests that are to be run only on the 
>>> specified platform (a test could be member of more than one of these)
>> And the defaults for these are an unbroken state and runs on any 
>> platform.
>> That makes sense...
>> Will the platform ids be organised in a similar way to the platform ids
>> we've discussed before for organisation of native code [1]?
> The actual string used to identify a particular platform can be 
> whatever we want it to be, just so long as we are consistent. So, yes, 
> the ids mentioned in the referenced email would seem a good starting 
> point. Do we need to include a 32-bit/64-bit identifier ?

I cannot immediately think of any obvious 32/64-bit specific tests that we
might require in the future (although Id be interested to know if anyone
can think of any!). However, if the need did arise, then I would
suggest that this is incorporated as another tag on the end of the
group name e.g. os.linux.ppc.32.

>> So all tests are, by default, in an all-platforms (or shared) group.
>> If a test fails on all Windows platforms, it is marked with
>> state.broken.windows.
>> If a test fails on Windows but only on, say, amd hardware,
>> it is marked state.broken.windows.amd.
> Yes. Agreed.
>> Then when you come to run tests on your windows amd machine,
>> you want to include all tests in the all-platform (shared) group,
>> os.windows and os.windows.amd, and exclude all tests in
>> the state.broken, state.broken.windows and state.broken.windows.amd
>> groups.
>> Does this tally with what you were thinking?
> Yes, that is the idea.
>>> What does everyone else think ? Does such a scheme sound reasonable ?
>> I think so - it seems to cover our current requirements. Thanks for
>> coming up with this!
> Thanks, but I don't see it as final yet really. It would be great to 
> prove the worth of this by doing a trial on one of the existing 
> modules, ideally something that contains tests that are 
> platform-specific.

Thanks for volunteering... ;)

...but seriously, do any of our modules currently contain platform 
specific tests?
Have you attempted a TestNG trial on any of the modules (with or
without platform specific tests) and, if so, was it 
than our current setup?


> Best regards,
> George
>> Regards,
>> Oliver
>> [1] 
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-harmony-dev/200605.mbox/%3c44687AAA.5080302@googlemail.com%3e

>>> Thanks for reading this far.
>>> Best regards,
>>> George
>>> George Harley wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Just seen Tim's note on test support classes and it really caught 
>>>> my attention as I have been mulling over this issue for a little 
>>>> while now. I think that it is a good time for us to return to the 
>>>> topic of class library test layouts.
>>>> The current proposal [1] sets out to segment our different types of 
>>>> test by placing them in different file locations. After looking at 
>>>> the recent changes to the LUNI module tests (where the layout 
>>>> guidelines were applied) I have a real concern that there are 
>>>> serious problems with this approach. We have started down a track 
>>>> of just continually growing the number of test source folders as 
>>>> new categories of test are identified and IMHO that is going to 
>>>> bring complexity and maintenance issues with these tests.
>>>> Consider the dimensions of tests that we have ...
>>>> API
>>>> Harmony-specific
>>>> Platform-specific
>>>> Run on classpath
>>>> Run on bootclasspath
>>>> Behaves different between Harmony and RI
>>>> Stress
>>>> ...and so on...
>>>> If you weigh up all of the different possible permutations and then 
>>>> consider that the above list is highly likely to be extended as 
>>>> things progress it is obvious that we are eventually heading for 
>>>> large amounts of related test code scattered or possibly duplicated 
>>>> across numerous "hard wired" source directories. How maintainable 
>>>> is that going to be ?
>>>> If we want to run different tests in different configurations then 
>>>> IMHO we need to be thinking a whole lot smarter. We need to be 
>>>> thinking about keeping tests for specific areas of functionality 
>>>> together (thus easing maintenance); we need something quick and 
>>>> simple to re-configure if necessary (pushing whole directories of 
>>>> files around the place does not seem a particularly lightweight 
>>>> approach); and something that is not going to potentially mess up 
>>>> contributed patches when the file they patch is found to have been 
>>>> recently pushed from source folder A to B.
>>>> To connect into another recent thread, there have been some posts 
>>>> lately about handling some test methods that fail on Harmony and 
>>>> have meant that entire test case classes have been excluded from 
>>>> our test runs. I have also been noticing some API test methods that 
>>>> pass fine on Harmony but fail when run against the RI. Are the 
>>>> different behaviours down to errors in the Harmony implementation ? 
>>>> An error in the RI implementation ? A bug in the RI Javadoc ? Only 
>>>> after some investigation has been carried out do we know for sure. 
>>>> That takes time. What do we do with the test methods in the 
>>>> meantime ? Do we push them round the file system into yet another 
>>>> new source folder ? IMHO we need a testing strategy that enables 
>>>> such "problem" methods to be tracked easily without disruption to 
>>>> the rest of the other tests.
>>>> A couple of weeks ago I mentioned that the TestNG framework [2] 
>>>> seemed like a reasonably good way of allowing us to both group 
>>>> together different kinds of tests and permit the exclusion of 
>>>> individual tests/groups of tests [3]. I would like to strongly 
>>>> propose that we consider using TestNG as a means of providing the 
>>>> different test configurations required by Harmony. Using a 
>>>> combination of annotations and XML to capture the kinds of 
>>>> sophisticated test configurations that people need, and that allows 
>>>> us to specify down to the individual method, has got to be more 
>>>> scalable and flexible than where we are headed now.
>>>> Thanks for reading this far.
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> George
>>>> [1] 
>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/classlibrary/testing.html

>>>> [2] http://testng.org
>>>> [3] 
>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-harmony-dev/200606.mbox/%3c44A163B3.6080005@googlemail.com%3e

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Oliver Deakin
IBM United Kingdom Limited

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