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Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 15:08:26 -0700
From: Stefano Mazzocchi <stefano@apache.org>
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To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: So today Sun announced...
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Dalibor Topic wrote:
> On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 10:46:55AM -0700, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>> I was at the J1 keynote this morning hoping to hear news about Sun 
>> open-sourcing Java.
>>
>> First, they announced some kind of distribution-like agreement with 
>> Ubuntu, so that any Debian-based distro can easily install Java.  It 
>> wasn't clear if they really are going to distribute Ubuntu w/ Java or 
>> just make it easy to install via apt.  I guess it's a new license for 
> 
> Since I am not at JavaOne, and thus out of reach of catapulted T-shirts,
> here is the gist of it:
> 
> SPOILER ALERT
> This post contains sarcasm and pokes mild fun at Sun. You can still hit 
> 'd', if you can't stand someone making fun of Sun's antics.
> SPOILER ALERT
> 
> Basicially, Sun decided to fix the more wacky parts of the binary 
> license that made it impossible for distributions to ship the JDK
> without having to ram down Sun's proprietary software down the throats of
> their users, and leave them no choice of a free software alternative. 
> 
> After ~5 years of Debian pointing out the obvious issues[1] of that 
> one, Sun eventually figured out that it may not be such a great idea, 
> after all. That blazingly fast display of the ability to listen follows 
> Schwartz's so accurately titled blog entry "Java, and Survival of the Most
> Adaptable". E pur si muove! :)
> 
>> their binaries.  This is good news - one of the motivations of Harmony 
>> was to help make Java a first-class citizen on Linux, and this is a 
>> solid step in that direction.
> 
> Sorta. Kinda. It's basically the first step Sun made to get off their
> appreciation for applying Microsoft's Windows OEM licensing concepts to 
> the redistributors of the JDK/JRE binaries. They could have done a lot
> better than with the license they ended up with. They could have also
> done worse, I guess, given Sun's legal divisions' masterworks like the 
> "Read Only" license.
> 
> It's a huge step for Sun, no wonder it took 5 years to remove a handful 
> of clauses from the BCL. :)
> 
>> Second.... I'm not sure how to describe this.  When Jonathan Schwartz 
>> (the CEO of Sun) asked Rich Green (the new EVP of software) if he was 
>> going to open-source Java, the answer was "the question isn't if, but 
>> how..." (or something like that)
>>
>> I suppose that means they have made some sort of decision to do it, but 
>> have no idea how or when.
> 
> Well, if you've seen Jonathan Schwartz pompously 'open source Java3D' a 
> few years ago, and then seen that after the hype cleared up, it meant 
> that Sun was keeping Java3D proprietary, and just releasing a bunch of
> coding examples under a anti-nuclear BSD license, you know what to
> expect: more of the same.
> 
> My guess from Sun's past performance pseudo-open-sourcing Java3D, JAI, 
> etc. is that Schwartz will 'open source Java' in 2010, with huge fanfares, 
> and when one looks at the small print, that will actually mean that 
> you'll be able to get the examples from the Swing trail, and nothing 
> else, under the anti-nuclear BSD license. :)
> 
>> So, while many of us knew that Sun will OSS Java eventually, it's still 
>> good news, and it's nice to see that the Java ecosystem is moving slowly 
>> but surely to openness :)
> 
> For a suitable definition of 'openness', which Sun has not figured out
> yet ... so no new license announcement just yet. :)
> 
> Nevertheless, I propose the name Java 'Openness' License for the upcoming
> wonderlicense at JAvaOne 2010. :)

Here are the facts:

http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/non-free/s/sun-java5/sun-java5_1.5.0-06-1/copyright

This is a great step in the widespread use of java in the linux world
(apt-get install geronimo, anyone?) but it is no step in the direction
of open sourcing java.

the article at

 http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=3048

(Simon, you still around here?) claims that this license is equivalent to

 https://java3d.dev.java.net/jdl-java3d.pdf

and that the debian package is called "sun-java-jre" but claims are
bogus. The package is called "sun-java5" and it is available in the
'unstable' debian flavor.

But I agree with Dalibor, "eppur si muove" ;-)

-- 
Stefano.


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