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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: So today Sun announced...
Date Tue, 16 May 2006 22:08:26 GMT
Dalibor Topic wrote:
> On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 10:46:55AM -0700, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>> I was at the J1 keynote this morning hoping to hear news about Sun 
>> open-sourcing Java.
>> First, they announced some kind of distribution-like agreement with 
>> Ubuntu, so that any Debian-based distro can easily install Java.  It 
>> wasn't clear if they really are going to distribute Ubuntu w/ Java or 
>> just make it easy to install via apt.  I guess it's a new license for 
> Since I am not at JavaOne, and thus out of reach of catapulted T-shirts,
> here is the gist of it:
> This post contains sarcasm and pokes mild fun at Sun. You can still hit 
> 'd', if you can't stand someone making fun of Sun's antics.
> Basicially, Sun decided to fix the more wacky parts of the binary 
> license that made it impossible for distributions to ship the JDK
> without having to ram down Sun's proprietary software down the throats of
> their users, and leave them no choice of a free software alternative. 
> After ~5 years of Debian pointing out the obvious issues[1] of that 
> one, Sun eventually figured out that it may not be such a great idea, 
> after all. That blazingly fast display of the ability to listen follows 
> Schwartz's so accurately titled blog entry "Java, and Survival of the Most
> Adaptable". E pur si muove! :)
>> their binaries.  This is good news - one of the motivations of Harmony 
>> was to help make Java a first-class citizen on Linux, and this is a 
>> solid step in that direction.
> Sorta. Kinda. It's basically the first step Sun made to get off their
> appreciation for applying Microsoft's Windows OEM licensing concepts to 
> the redistributors of the JDK/JRE binaries. They could have done a lot
> better than with the license they ended up with. They could have also
> done worse, I guess, given Sun's legal divisions' masterworks like the 
> "Read Only" license.
> It's a huge step for Sun, no wonder it took 5 years to remove a handful 
> of clauses from the BCL. :)
>> Second.... I'm not sure how to describe this.  When Jonathan Schwartz 
>> (the CEO of Sun) asked Rich Green (the new EVP of software) if he was 
>> going to open-source Java, the answer was "the question isn't if, but 
>> how..." (or something like that)
>> I suppose that means they have made some sort of decision to do it, but 
>> have no idea how or when.
> Well, if you've seen Jonathan Schwartz pompously 'open source Java3D' a 
> few years ago, and then seen that after the hype cleared up, it meant 
> that Sun was keeping Java3D proprietary, and just releasing a bunch of
> coding examples under a anti-nuclear BSD license, you know what to
> expect: more of the same.
> My guess from Sun's past performance pseudo-open-sourcing Java3D, JAI, 
> etc. is that Schwartz will 'open source Java' in 2010, with huge fanfares, 
> and when one looks at the small print, that will actually mean that 
> you'll be able to get the examples from the Swing trail, and nothing 
> else, under the anti-nuclear BSD license. :)
>> So, while many of us knew that Sun will OSS Java eventually, it's still 
>> good news, and it's nice to see that the Java ecosystem is moving slowly 
>> but surely to openness :)
> For a suitable definition of 'openness', which Sun has not figured out
> yet ... so no new license announcement just yet. :)
> Nevertheless, I propose the name Java 'Openness' License for the upcoming
> wonderlicense at JAvaOne 2010. :)

Here are the facts:


This is a great step in the widespread use of java in the linux world
(apt-get install geronimo, anyone?) but it is no step in the direction
of open sourcing java.

the article at


(Simon, you still around here?) claims that this license is equivalent to


and that the debian package is called "sun-java-jre" but claims are
bogus. The package is called "sun-java5" and it is available in the
'unstable' debian flavor.

But I agree with Dalibor, "eppur si muove" ;-)


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