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From Geir Magnusson Jr <g...@pobox.com>
Subject Re: [prayer] to the Eclipse Foundation
Date Fri, 05 May 2006 10:18:34 GMT

Tim Ellison wrote:
> Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>> Nathan Beyer wrote:
>>> I may be a bit naïve in regards to such things, but would it be
>>> possible to
>>> create our own stripped down compiler package? My thought is that we
>>> could
>>> just checkout the appropriate JDT code from Eclipse's CVS server,
>>> build only
>>> the classes necessary and create a wee JAR.
>>>
>> I'd prefer not if we don't have to, 
> 
> I'd also prefer not to where we can download directly, but in this case
> it appears that we cannot.
> 
>> because we don't create
>> distributions of software unless we host the source and can account for
>> it's provenance.
> 
> That's not my understanding, and is certainly not the case at present
> (ICU, ZLib, FDLibm, etc.)

We're talking about two different things here, I believe.  We just 
redistribute ICU, ZLib, FDLibm binaries, which is a practice we did long 
  before Cliff's webpage :)  We don't create those distros right?

> 
> Cliff's draft policy on third-party code [1] specifically allows
> redistributing binary versions of EPL code in Apache products, with
> certain requirements such that we provide clear references to that
> code's source.

Of course we can redistribute any EPL binary we find.  What I thought 
Nathan suggested is different - that we create an EPL binary from source 
from somewhere and redistribute that.  It it wasn't for the license, we 
could do that, actually, because we could put a copy into our SVN so we 
could "do a release".

>>
>>> Obviously this puts Harmony in the business of managing more stuff,
>>> but it
>>> might help things out in the short-term. Perhaps such an example could be
>>> posted to Eclipse with a bug to help the cause.
>> I'm hoping they just can distribute the jars we (and others) need
>> separately.
> 
> That would be good, but where they cannot/will not then I think we can
> redistribute in product.

Again, there's no problem with us redistributing jars that we dig out of 
their bigger distros.

The problem I see is is the ASF becoming a publisher of new artifacts 
into the ecosystem based on foreign source code, which is what would 
happen if we started building jars from their source when that source 
isn't in our repo.  (This is different than being a redistributor of 
their already-published artifacts.)

We've run into this before in Geronimo, with other Apache codebases for 
similar reasons - and I think we just stuffed the source into SVN (we 
could), built from there, named the jar something like 
geronimo-private-$THINGY-$VER.jar so it was darn clear that this was 
some geronimo frankenbuild...

<joke>
Maybe another prayer to Eclipse to dual license their code?  :)
</joke>

geir


> 
> Regards,
> Tim
> 
> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr [mailto:geir@pobox.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 8:32 AM
>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [prayer] to the Eclipse Foundation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tim Ellison wrote:
>>>>> Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>>>>>> There was actually zero sarcasm intended there.  I was just hoping
to
>>>>>> get your attention.  I've used this format effectively w/ the JCP
as
>>>>>> well. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only comment that I thought might get taken the wrong way was
the
>>>>>> "bloat" comment, but from the perspective of being interested in
>>>> getting
>>>>>> the java compiler and getting in a 100MB download....
>>>>> Getting the compiler stand-alone would be the ideal, but as Mark points
>>>>> out, if it doesn't work out you can also get the same thing via
>>>>> Eclipse's 19Mb JDT binary download.
>>>> That certainly is an improvement...
>>>>
>>>> geir
>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>>> So - can we get the Java compiler hosted officially somewhere?  Right
>>>>>> now, for the harmony classlib, we ask people to dig it out of the
>>>>>> eclipse distro, and the contributed build script for the new VM from
>>>>>> Intel does that same thing automatically.  Lots of extra bits floating
>>>>>> through the internets...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it would also assist adoption - it would make it easier for
>>>>>> other projects to use it via ant or maven jar fetches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, if it is already that way somewhere, and I'm just clueless,
>>>> I
>>>>>> deserve whatever drubbing you can aim my way :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> geir
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike Milinkovich wrote:
>>>>>>> I've tried parsing the prayer a few times to delete the sarcasm
and
>>>>>>> understand exactly what you're asking for, but as with most prayers,
>>>> the
>>>>>>> language appears to be imprecise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What *exactly* is it that you're looking for?
>>>>>>> Mike Milinkovich
>>>>>>> Executive Director,
>>>>>>> Eclipse Foundation, Inc.
>>>>>>> Office: 613-224-9461 x228
>>>>>>> Cell: 613-220-3223
>>>>>>> mike.milinkovich@eclipse.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> blog: http://milinkovich.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Geir Magnusson Jr [mailto:geir@pobox.com] Sent: May
4, 2006
>>>>>>>> 7:07 AM
>>>>>>>> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [prayer] to the Eclipse Foundation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seriously, anyone have any contacts there?  (Church of Eclipse,
not
>>>>>>>> billygraham...)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike, are you around? :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> geir
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim Ellison wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dear Harmony Project,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think you are on the wrong mailing list, please try
>>>>>>>>> www.billygraham.org  (or whatever your personal preference).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Oh Mighty Eclipse Foundation,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thou art soest bountiful, we praise your munificence,
>>>>>>>> especially that
>>>>>>>>>> which compiles the java.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We beseech thee, in thy mercy, to offer to your lowly
>>>>>>>> servants that
>>>>>>>>>> which we covet alone in it's beauty, without thy
holy bloat, for
>>>>>>>>>> while that which wraps the compiler of java nourishes
>>>>>>>> those without
>>>>>>>>>> the divine IDEA, we do not deserveth such goodness,
nor have the
>>>>>>>>>> richness of time or heavenly bandwidth.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We ask this humbly, and with averted gaze as befitting
our
>>>>>>>>>> station.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Harmony Project
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>
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> 

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