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From Leo Simons <m...@leosimons.com>
Subject Re: [classlib/legal?] Re: Downloading dependencies
Date Tue, 04 Apr 2006 10:10:55 GMT
Two keywords:

  1) trust

  2) merit

To have a dependency on external packages, we extend some trust to their
authors/vendors to keep them available as open source. If this trust is
misplaced, we don't want the dependency. We don't want dependencies on
badly hosted, fragile, one-person hobby projects. The ASF develops software
as part of a larger ecosystem and the dependencies on third party sites is
just a natural part of that. The ASF distributes binaries only as pure
convenience.

The other one is about voting/democracy. I just wanted to mention it,
because democracy doesn't work for us here. This is a meritocracy. There is
just merit, and merit can be associated with ideas as well as with people
(leading to things like committership). Some of these kinds of decisions
and/or ways of handling this kind of thing have been figured out over the
course of several years by the ASF and its not up to harmony to go and
change all of them. One of the main goals for incubation is learning to
understand the ASF ways and work with them. Starting off by disagreeing with
them is usually not all that conductive to making that happen. Perhaps this
sometimes means, "ask, don't tell".

cheers!

Leo

On Tue, Apr 04, 2006 at 12:29:01AM -0400, Etienne Gagnon wrote:
> Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
> > What are you voting against, exactly?
> > 
> > I don't grok why this is a problem.  You'll download the jars *once*
> > (until a version changes), and with the exception of the MSVC runtime
> > dll, it's automated for you.
> 
> [Just explaining my position, not trying to change your mind].
> 
> I'm mainly voting against having our trunk dependent on remote
> (non-Apache) sites availability.  For example, what if libXYZ-1.02.jar
> became unavailable tomorrow (assuming the trunk depended on it)?  Maybe
> Harmony is the only project using it, and the author went bankrupt, or
> more likely, lost his site because he/she graduated from school, and
> that person wasn't aware Harmony used his/her open-source stuff.  I'll
> let it to your imagination to come up with other likely scenarios.  In
> such case, our trunk would break.  I don't see how temporarily re-(?)
> "distributing" open-source stuff is a problem, but I'm not a lawyer, so
> I'll trust Apache's lawyers on this.
> 
> Yet, I'll admit that the build system is dealing with this issue in a
> rather clean way, in that a separate ant file is used for the download,
> and the main build file does not depend on downloading from remote sites.
> 
> And just as a note: I have no problem living in democracy, and not
> always being on the majority side.  A few discussions here and there are
> key to coming up with better ideas, as long as discussions remain
> civilized. :-)
> 
> Etienne
> 
> -- 
> Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D.            http://www.info2.uqam.ca/~egagnon/
> SableVM:                                       http://www.sablevm.org/
> SableCC:                                       http://www.sablecc.org/



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