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From Geir Magnusson Jr <g...@pobox.com>
Subject Re: Download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing it
Date Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:03:36 GMT


Tim Ellison wrote:
> Mark Hindess wrote:
>> I agree with Geir.  For now, it would be safer to put it back in svn
>> and not download it.
> 
> Hmm, I don't get it -- why would it be ok for Apache to make it
> available independently via SVN?

It wouldn't.  If it can't be distributed independently, then we get it 
out of SVN as well.

geir

> 
> Regards,
> Tim
> 
>> Tim, if you back this out, can you leave the macrodef and other
>> changes in place in make/depends.xml?
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Mark.
>>
>> On 3/31/06, Geir Magnusson Jr <geir@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> I have no worries that we can re-distribute.  It would be insane if we
>>> couldn't.
>>>
>>> But I don't want to be setting up and distributing software - our build
>>> system - that is a mechanism for contributory infringement of
>>> Microsoft's license agreement by automatically pulling down the .dll
>>> from a source that is in violation of that license.
>>>
>>> geir
>>>
>>> Paulex Yang wrote:
>>>> Well, so I have another question, if our concern is just whether the
>>>> msvcr71.dll can be redistributable _independently_, why we need to
>>>> download it rather than distributing it with Harmony?
>>>>
>>>> Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>>>>> Tim Ellison wrote:
>>>>>> The Microsoft VisualStudio redist.txt allows it to be redistributed,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The following list reflects all files available with Microsoft Visual
>>>>>> Studio for redistribution;...
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> msvcr71.dll
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and the MSDN website [1] says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "An application should use and redistribute msvcr71.dll, and it should
>>>>>> avoid placing a copy or using an existing copy of msvcr71.dll in
the
>>>>>> system directory. Instead, the application should keep a copy of
>>>>>> msvcr71.dll in its application directory with the program executable."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So is the question, can _anyone_ (i.e. "dlldump.com") redistribute
this
>>>>>> file?
>>>>> Or to make the question more precise, can anyone redistribute this
>>>>> file _independent_ of the application?  That's my concern.
>>>>>
>>>>> geir
>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vclib/html/_crt_c_run.2d.time_libraries.asp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paulex Yang wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm not a lawyer, but as to my knowledge, many commercial as
well as
>>>>>>> open source software distribution includes msvcr71.dll, say,
wincvs,
>>>>>>> ImageMagick, VMWare, OpenOffice, etc(just a few cases).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the vctoolkit2003's EULA says:
>>>>>>> "2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive,
>>>>>>> royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code
form of
>>>>>>> any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT ("Redistributable
>>>>>>> Code"). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable
>>>>>>> Code, see Sectionļ£µ3.1, below. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but its redist.txt doesn't list any files! it says:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "There are no redistributable files (i.e., dll's/cab's, etc.)
included
>>>>>>> with the Visual C++ Toolkit 2003. Object library files included
with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 (e.g. the C Runtime Library static libraries
>>>>>>> designated with the suffix ".lib") will be automatically linked
to your
>>>>>>> program when they are compiled by the Visual C++ compiler and
linker.
>>>>>>> Inclusion of these static libraries as compiled into your program
is
>>>>>>> acceptable; you may not, however, redistribute the static libraries
>>>>>>> standalone - on their own."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While MSDN also said files in redist.txt is redistributable,
the
>>>>>>> VS.net's redist.txt DOES include msvcr71.dll. Does it mean only
>>>>>>> VisualStudio user can redistribute it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vccore/html/vcconalistofredistributablefiles.asp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>>>>>>>> This gives me the heebie-jeebies. What is the license for
that dll?
>>>>>>>> Are people allowed to re-distribute independent of an app
that uses
>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where else can people get it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim Ellison wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ok, if somebody prefers a different source send a note.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mark Hindess wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I failed to find it on microsoft.com too. Though
I'd be happy to be
>>>>>>>>>> corrected.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was the first hit on the google search I did -
or the first that
>>>>>>>>>> didn't use javascript and popups to serve the download.
It's trivial
>>>>>>>>>> to change if you find a better source.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was careful to make sure the file it served had
the md5sum of the
>>>>>>>>>> file in svn. I also checked the sha1sum just to be
a little more
>>>>>>>>>> confident of its validity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> -Mark.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/30/06, Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Is "www.dlldump.com" our chosen supplier? I've
never heard of them.
>>>>>>>>>>> I browsed around and didn't see it anywhere on
the microsoft.com
>>>>>>>>>>> website. I know we are checking the MD5 to ensure
we get the right
>>>>>>>>>>> thing; any idea about reliability etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mark Hindess (JIRA) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> download msvcr71.dll rather than distributing
it
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Key: HARMONY-282
>>>>>>>>>>>> URL: http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-282
>>>>>>>>>>>> Project: Harmony
>>>>>>>>>>>> Type: Improvement
>>>>>>>>>>>> Components: Classlib
>>>>>>>>>>>> Reporter: Mark Hindess
>>>>>>>>>>>> Priority: Trivial
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim suggested we should download the msvcr71.dll
rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>> distributing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
>>>>>>>>>>> IBM Java technology centre, UK.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Mark Hindess <mark.hindess@googlemail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> IBM Java Technology Centre, UK.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Hindess <mark.hindess@googlemail.com>
>> IBM Java Technology Centre, UK.
> 

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