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From Leo Simons <m...@leosimons.com>
Subject Re: SableVM? -- ICLA details
Date Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:06:15 GMT
On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 10:32:19AM -0500, Etienne Gagnon wrote:
> I started replying to your email, suggesting modifications to the ICLA
> that would address my concerns.  As this would probably lead to a very
> long license thread, I erased it, and I am proposing a simpler solution.

simple = good :-)

> I am proposing that we strictly abide by the advertised Apache Harmony
> Contribution Policy at:
>  http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/contribution_policy.html
> but, we add one additional condition that must be met by the ASF, and we
> add an explicit mention of it on signed ICLAs:
> 
> 1- Current and future SableVM contributors sign the ICLA for
>  contributing patches and possibly gaining commit rights.
>  http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
> 
> 2- Also, contributors must complete the Authorized Contributor
>  Questionnaire and submit to the Harmony PMC.
>  http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/auth_cont_quest.html
> 
> 3- I sign a Software Grant license (with the authorization of the
>  appropriate SableVM authors to do so) for each bulk contribution.
>  http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt
> 
> 4- I fill a Bulk Contribution Checklist for each bulk contribution.
>  http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/bulk_contribution_checklist.html
> 
> 5- The ASF provides me with an official, legally binding document,
>  signed by officers that have sufficient rights to do so, stating that
>  it will only sub-license (distribute, etc.) code contributed by SableVM
>  authors (can be identified specifically) and derivatives of this code,
>  under licenses that require explicit acknowledgment of the copyright
>  of these authors and that require redistribution of the related text
>  found in the NOTICE file.  [I have no trouble letting the ASF lawyers
>  come up with some text proposal.  I would highly suggest reusing words
>  off the Apache License 2.0 to do so.  I can even propose some text, if
>  you wish me to do so.]

Interesting. I'm rather sure the ASF has never done something like that
before. As soon as it comes to "official" or "legally binding" I tend to
try and gracefully bow out of any discussion.

> 6- Each ICLA and Software Grant has an explicit hand written reference
>  to the ASF document in "5-" beside the signature(s).  A copy of the
>  ASF document in "5-" is added as an appendix to the ICLA/SG in your
>  records and our records.
> 
> I sincerely think that the above should be acceptable to all parties
> involved. 

I can imagine so but realistically I have no clue.

> SableVM authors would end up strictly abiding by the existing
> contribution policy, yet the ASF would be providing us with the security
> we require to acknowledge our contributions.

In any case, if an ASF officer needs to sign legal paperwork that is
unlike anything the ASF has ever signed before, you'll immediately notice
a slowdown of all processes since all of a sudden things drop out of
"internet time". This makes me instinctively dislike any process that
requires official action by an ASF officer.

> See below for a short comment.
> 
> Leo Simons wrote:
> >>So, for example, the ASF could sublicense
> >>derivatives of our work under any license it wants, without even
> >>acknowledging our contribution in a NOTICE file.
> > 
> > "When hell freezes over..."
> 
> As far as I know, the ASF has no power to control US federal and state
> governments.  So, the ASF cannot assure me that US laws will never
> change in the next millennium (you never know how long the US government
> will extend copyright, given Disney's lobbying) as to allow Microsoft or
> any such party to gain control on the ASF, possibly after a bankrupt or
> something similar. 

No, indeed it cannot.

> It is very difficult to predict the future of any
> corporation, be it a private, public, profit or non-profit organization.

I am happy to predict though that neither Disney nor Microsoft gain control
over the ASF in the next millenium. It seems a safer bet than the weather :)

>  So, I feel very, very uncomfortable to give a blank check to anybody.

Ok. Never licensed anything under the BSD license, have you? :-)

> [Of course, the US government can also adopt laws that invalidate
> written contracts...]

Don't get me started on the things the US government feels it can do...

> Hoping that my proposal above is acceptable to all.
> 
> Etienne
> PS: It seems we're getting down to the "real" stuff... heh.

Yeah looks like it!

- Leo

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