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From Leo Simons <m...@leosimons.com>
Subject Re: [Fwd: Re: [jchevm] JCHEVM discussion]
Date Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:18:34 GMT
Hi Etienne,

Thanks for your clarifications! Since Geir has informed me that some
of the conversation related to this issue is currently also proceeding
outside of the public forum (I must say I personally find that a shame
-- all of the open source community can learn from things like this if
the discussion happens in public), I'll respect the desire for a little
privacy and refrain from commenting further here, below, except to note

 * IIUC The Apache Software Foundation (as a legal entity) has not
   acknowledged anything but the receipt of a claim. In general it
   should be rather clear when "the ASF" acknowledges something or acts
   in an official capacity (speaking through one of its Officers), but
   people talking on mailing lists or in private conversation in
   general do not represent the ASF as a legal entity.

 * both the ASF as an organisation and harmony as an incubating project
   at Apache respect copyrights and other IP rights of all
   parties (of course including you). We even try and go a little further
   than that and also "give credit where credit is due" which often goes
   above and beyond IP rights.

I hope it all works out.

best regards,


On Mon, Mar 13, 2006 at 05:51:27PM -0500, Etienne Gagnon wrote:
> Hi Dalibor, Leo, and all,
>  Archie wrote:
>    3. So what do we do? My wish is to give SableVM the benefit of the
>       doubt.  If there's something in there they claim is "theirs", we
>       can take it out and replace it. I'd rather do that than argue
>       about it. We should remember that JCVM owes SableVM a debt of
>       gratitude and respect their wishes.
>  Etienne wrote:
>   So, if the Harmony project has no problem acknowledging the shared
>   Copyright of SableVM authors on JCHEVM, I will get in touch with these
>   authors to get their consent to a license change.
>  Geir answered:
>   That's excellent!  I see no problem with that.  We traditionally give
>   credit where credit is due for anything we redistribute.
> So, just to make things Cristal clear:
> 1- I do claim shared copyright on JCVM/JCHEVM.  I do not and will not
> back down from this.
> 2- As far as I can tell from the above, both the ASF and Archie Cobbs
> seem to agree to acknowledge this shared copyright.
> 3- The only "obscure area" that is left (i.e. an area where there is no
> explicit agreement between all involved) is: which exact parts can be
> claimed "independent" work and which cannot not.  It seems easier to
> agree to simply state the shared copyright on JCHEVM and leave the
> detail of exact files and lines out.  Personally, I claim co-ownership
> on the whole derivative of SableVM.  I am sure Archie Cobbs would do the
> reverse.  Unfortunately, it would probably be quite difficult to settle
> this out of court.  Do you really want this to escalate that far?
> 4- Once this shared copyright is acknowledged, there is a license issue
> to solve.  The ASF has not been given a permission by SableVM authors to
> distribute the derivative work, namely JCHEVM, under the Apache License.
>   This is where I am amicably proposing a hopefully elegant solution: to
> ask SableVM authors to give such permission, so that we can all go on
> with our lives and continue development.  Anyway, I have made SableVM
> Free/Opens Source so that people can copy, share and derive code from
> it; I see no reason not to let people do so.  All I am asking for is a
> little respect of my copyright on software to which I have dedicated
> years of work.
> Regards,
> Etienne
> -- 
> Etienne M. Gagnon, Ph.D.            http://www.info2.uqam.ca/~egagnon/
> SableVM:                                       http://www.sablevm.org/
> SableCC:                                       http://www.sablecc.org/

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