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From: Dalibor Topic <robilad@kaffe.org>
Subject: Re: Harmony and the future of Java
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Damian Hamill <damian <at> herculeez.com> writes:

> 
> I joined the list a few days ago and I got here as a result of reading the
> "Java: Dead Like COBOL, Not Like Elvis?" thread on TheServerside
> http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=39066.
> 
> In a couple of posts by Dalibor Topic (a developer on GNU Classpath
> and Kaffe OpenVM) he asserted that Java developers will move on to
> .NET and he used this phrase "just like how applets were replaced by
> Flash".  He also said 
> 
> "For example, you can write neat GUI applications for Windows today
> using Java5 and/or SWT. Once Vista ships with bundled Whidbey, though,
> GUI application developers on Windows will be facing an interesting
> choice: n MB for a C# application on Whidbey, or n MB + sizeof(Sun JRE
> 1.6) for a Java application. As we've seen with applets vs flash,
> there is a very simple answer: the ubiquitous one wins. See Netscape
> vs IE, which was decided the moment Microsoft bundled the browser with
> the OS."

Thanks for the praise, and giving my arguments on that forum your consideration.
FWIW, I am also one the folks who helped getting Apache Harmony going, so I am
trying in a lot of ways to help fix the problems I see with Java, in different
venues.

> If most/all of the classes were like this then the class library zip
> file would be very small.  The same goes for the other programs and
> dlls, if they are not part of the JVM core and needed by every
> applet/application that runs then make them stubs that download the
> real thing when they are used the first time.

That's an interesting idea, but unfortunately, it can't be done in an
implementation that wants to be certified as Java compatible, like Harmony,
since the VM + class library that you ship needs to be certified as compatible,
not the VM + class library + something you download on demand from some server
if you have a network connection around. The fundamental problem with the idea
is that you end up effectively subsetting J2SE, and the current rules do not
allow for that, a J2SE implementation always needs to behave as one, even
without a network connection. :)

> So I found my way to Harmony in the hope that I can help and this is
> the area I would like to get involved in.

Welcome on board, and have fun.
dalibor topic