Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-harmony-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 15545 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2006 20:20:35 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 24 Feb 2006 20:20:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 73945 invoked by uid 500); 24 Feb 2006 20:20:30 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-harmony-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 73878 invoked by uid 500); 24 Feb 2006 20:20:29 -0000 Mailing-List: contact harmony-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 73867 invoked by uid 99); 24 Feb 2006 20:20:29 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:20:29 -0800 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: neutral (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [81.33.31.233] (HELO marlow.intranet.hisitech.com) (81.33.31.233) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:20:27 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by marlow.intranet.hisitech.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E421D374110 for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:48:00 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [Fwd: TALK:Wednesday 3-1-06 Evolution of the Java (tm) Programming Language an] From: Santiago Gala To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org In-Reply-To: <43FE6504.7020100@apache.org> References: <43FE308C.5040408@apache.org> <1140736561.10742.3.camel@localhost> <34199a5e0602231739x4ee71e50wd9970d24bcc7dfec@mail.gmail.com> <43FE6504.7020100@apache.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-2AMLiezHZew1hFRh42Ad" Organization: Apache Software Foundation Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:40:33 +0100 Message-Id: <1140784835.13289.15.camel@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.4.2.1 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --=-2AMLiezHZew1hFRh42Ad Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-1s+IlIFKnzpP43d/ya1e" --=-1s+IlIFKnzpP43d/ya1e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable El jue, 23-02-2006 a las 20:44 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi escribi=C3=B3: (...) > A good friend of mine used to have "cat juggler" as his title and I was=20 > thinking about using "software plumber" as mine at one point. Fair enough, I used to have "problem solver" or "I solve your problems for a fee" as mine. >=20 > I tend to prefer somebody who admits to be a religiously attached to=20 > something than those who pretend to be objective about it and deep=20 > inside they are not. >=20 > Not sure this is the case, but that's how I read it. >=20 OK, I just got surprised. I'm giving a talk on "Software and Artistic Expression" in two weeks, so I kind of understand code as speech. From there to code as scripture there is just some sliding slope. I can grok evangelist as a metaphor, but being a Theologian would in my view mean that src.zip is some sort of holy scripture, thing that I'm far from believing. Oh, and heresy outside of the JCP church. :-P What is more, such a title helps building on the tradition of java as a "mono(theistic)culture", together with the .NET. one Just yesterday I got squeak/smalltalk communities criticized (and I agree) for being too closed in themselves, and it rang bells about java being sort of the same. Having been part of both communities, I can't but sympathise with Ben Hyde's "Small Gods" post: http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/2003/06/small-gods Getting closer to topic, I wonder if someone can post here a subjective summary of the ideas on support for dynamic languages in future java. I'm concerned about the stagnation of jython (barely commits since 2.2a1) and I would also like to know how far is support for dynamic languages going to be. In particular, things like smalltalk's primitive "anObject become: anotherObject", which will turn all references to an object to references to a different one seem difficult to mix with the static typing nature of java, and I would like to know more about the approach they are going to take for such kind of problems. Regards Santiago --=20 VP and Chair, Apache Portals (http://portals.apache.org) Apache Software Foundation --=-1s+IlIFKnzpP43d/ya1e Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable El jue, 23-02-2006 a las 20:44 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi escribió:

(...) 
A good friend of mine used to have "cat juggle=
r" as his title and I was 
thinking about using "software plumber" a=
s mine at one point.

Fair enough, I used to have "problem solver" or "I solve you= r problems for a fee" as mine.


I tend to prefer somebody who admits to be a religi=
ously attached to 
something than those who pretend to be objective ab=
out it and deep 
inside they are not.

Not sure this is the case, but that's how I read it=
.

OK, I just got surprised. I'm giving a talk on "Software and Artistic = Expression" in two weeks, so I kind of understand code as speech. From= there to code as scripture there is just some sliding slope.

I can grok evangelist as a metaphor, but being a Theologian would in my vie= w mean that src.zip is some sort of holy scripture, thing that I'm far from= believing. Oh, and heresy outside of the JCP church. :-P

What is more, such a title helps building on the tradition of java as a &qu= ot;mono(theistic)culture", together with the .NET. one

Just yesterday I got squeak/smalltalk communities criticized (and I agree) = for being too closed in themselves, and it rang bells about java being sort= of the same. Having been part of both communities, I can't but sympathise = with Ben Hyde's "Small Gods" post: http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/20= 03/06/small-gods

Getting closer to topic, I wonder if someone can post here a subjective sum= mary of the ideas on support for dynamic languages in future java. I'm conc= erned about the stagnation of jython (barely commits since 2.2a1) and I wou= ld also like to know how far is support for dynamic languages going to be.<= BR>
In particular, things like smalltalk's primitive "anObject become: ano= therObject", which will turn all references to an object to references= to a different one seem difficult to mix with the static typing nature of = java, and I would like to know more about the approach they are going to ta= ke for such kind of problems.

Regards
Santiago
--=20
VP and Chair, Apache Portals (http://=
portals.apache.org)
Apache Software Foundation
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