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From Tim Ellison <t.p.elli...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Harmony and the future of Java
Date Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:00:02 GMT
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Santiago Gala wrote:
>> El jue, 23-02-2006 a las 20:44 -0500, Stefano Mazzocchi escribió:
>> (...)
>>> A good friend of mine used to have "cat juggler" as his title and I
>>> was thinking about using "software plumber" as mine at one point.
>> Fair enough, I used to have "problem solver" or "I solve your problems
>> for a fee" as mine.
>>> I tend to prefer somebody who admits to be a religiously attached to
>>> something than those who pretend to be objective about it and deep
>>> inside they are not.
>>> Not sure this is the case, but that's how I read it.
>> OK, I just got surprised. I'm giving a talk on "Software and Artistic
>> Expression" in two weeks, so I kind of understand code as speech. From
>> there to code as scripture there is just some sliding slope.
>> I can grok evangelist as a metaphor, but being a Theologian would in
>> my view mean that src.zip is some sort of holy scripture, thing that
>> I'm far from believing. Oh, and heresy outside of the JCP church. :-P
>> What is more, such a title helps building on the tradition of java as
>> a "mono(theistic)culture", together with the .NET. one
>> Just yesterday I got squeak/smalltalk communities criticized (and I
>> agree) for being too closed in themselves, and it rang bells about
>> java being sort of the same. Having been part of both communities, I
>> can't but sympathise with Ben Hyde's "Small Gods" post:
>> http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/2003/06/small-gods
>> Getting closer to topic, I wonder if someone can post here a
>> subjective summary of the ideas on support for dynamic languages in
>> future java. I'm concerned about the stagnation of jython (barely
>> commits since 2.2a1) and I would also like to know how far is support
>> for dynamic languages going to be.
>> In particular, things like smalltalk's primitive "anObject become:
>> anotherObject", which will turn all references to an object to
>> references to a different one seem difficult to mix with the static
>> typing nature of java, and I would like to know more about the
>> approach they are going to take for such kind of problems.
> I agree with you (and Ben) about the fact that monoculture brings
> stagnation, but I don't think this is a good place for talking about
> "java innovations".
> <hat type="project mentor">
> This project is about implement a JVM as specified by the JCP, of which
> the ASF is part of.
> Changing and influencing that JVM spec is out of scope it if brings
> incompatibilities that will preclude passing the certification stage.
> </hat>
> This said, it is not impossible for Harmony to be instrumental in
> showing that additions to the JVM might be beneficial for the outside
> world and therefore submit them for review to the JCP.
> There is *nothing* that prevents us from implementing harmony-specific
> features, if this doesn't stop us from passing the TCK.

Yes, well put.



Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
IBM Java technology centre, UK.

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