harmony-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From George Harley <george.c.har...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: [testing] code for exotic configurations
Date Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:05:18 GMT
Hi Mikhail,

None of my test messages to the list from this account seem to have reached
their destination. I'll keep my fingers crossed for this response though...


Mikhail Loenko wrote:
> On 1/27/06, George Harley1 <GHARLEY@uk.ibm.com> wrote:
>   
>> But because we live in a less than ideal world there will, no doubt, be
>> some tests that will demand an
>> environment that is impossible or at the very least difficult to mock up
>> for the majority of developers/testers.
>>     
>
> I'm absolutely agree that we are neither living in the ideal world nor trying
> to make it ideal :)
>   

C'mon. We are all trying to make it ideal. :-)

> So until we got a 'system' test suite why should we weaken existing tests?
>
>   
Uh ? I don't think that is what I was proposing.

>> One solution could be to segregate those tests into a separate test suite
>> (available for all but primarily
>> for those working in the niche area that demands the special environment).
>>     
>
> Moving this kind of tests would affect many people: they will see
> separate suites,
> try, ask questions...
>   
It would affect people in as much as they would see a number of different
test suites that could be potentially run. Some test suites would need some
more configuration up-front than others. The information about that would
be captured either in text files alongside the test code and/or in other
project documentation residing elsewhere (Harmony web pages, wiki pages 
etc).
It is a communication thing.

> If the test can be configured by a few people only who works on that
> specific area and those people are aware of those tests why not just
> print a log when the test is skipped?
>   
Sure. And it should be the role of the test framework to inform users
about which tests got run, passed, failed, got skipped etc.

> It would not disturb most of the people because the test will pass in 'bad'
> environment. But those, who know about these tests will sometimes grep
> logs to validate configuration.
>   
Why use logs to tell us information that the unit test framework can already
provide ? Who wants to have to grep through log files when the test runner
can provide us with what we need ?

> Thanks,
> Mikhail
>
>
>   
>> Alternatively, they could be
>> included as part of a general test suite but be purposely skipped over at
>> test execution time using a
>> test exclusion list understood by the test runner.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> George
>> ________________________________________
>> George C. Harley
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim Ellison <t.p.ellison@gmail.com>
>> 27/01/2006 08:53
>> Please respond to
>> harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>> To
>> harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> cc
>>
>> Subject
>> Re: [testing] code for exotic configurations
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Anton Avtamonov wrote:
>>     
>>>> Note that I could create my own provider and test with it, but what I
>>>>         
>> would
>>     
>>>> really want is to test how my EncryptedPrivateKeyInfo works with
>>>> AlgorithmParameters from real provider as well as how my other classes
>>>>         
>> work
>>     
>>>> with real implementations of crypto Engines.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mikhail.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Hi Mikhail,
>>> There are 'system' and 'unit' tests. Traditionally, unit tests are of
>>> developer-level. Each unit test is intended to test just a limited
>>> piece of functionality separately from other sub-systems (test for one
>>> fucntion, test for one class, etc). Such tests must create a desired
>>> environment over the testing fucntionality and run the scenario in the
>>> predefined conditions. Unit tests usually able to cover all scenarios
>>> (execution paths) for the tested parts of fucntionality.
>>>
>>> What are you talking about looks like 'system' testing. Such tests
>>> usually run on the real environment and test the most often scenarious
>>> (the reduntant set, all scenarios usually cannot be covered). Such
>>> testing is not concentrated on the particular fucntionality, but
>>> covers the work of the whole system.
>>> A sample is: "run some demo application on some particular platform,
>>> with some particular providers installed and perform some operations".
>>>
>>> I think currently we should focus on 'unit' test approach since it is
>>> more applicable during the development (so my advise is to revert your
>>> tests to install 'test' providers with the desired behavior as George
>>> proposed).
>>> However we should think about 'system' scenarios which can be run on
>>> the later stage and act as 'verification' of proper work of the entire
>>> system.
>>>       
>> I agree with all this.  The unit tests are one style of test for
>> establishing the correctness of the code.  As you point out the unit
>> tests typically require a well-defined environment in which to run, and
>> it becomes a judgment-call as to whether a particular test's
>> environmental requirements are 'reasonable' or not.
>>
>> For example, you can reasonably expect all developers to have an
>> environment to run unit tests that has enough RAM and a writable disk
>> etc. such that if those things do not exist the tests will simply fail.
>>  However, you may decide it is unreasonable to expect the environment to
>> include a populated LDAP server, or a carefully configured RMI server.
>> If you were to call that environment unreasonable then testing JNDI and
>> RMI would likely involve mock objects etc. to get good unit tests.
>>
>> Of course, as you point out, once you are passing the unit tests you
>> also need the 'system' tests to ensure the code works in a real
>> environment.  Usage scenarios based on the bigger system are good, as is
>> running the bigger system's test suite on our runtime.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>     
>>> --
>>> Anton Avtamonov,
>>> Intel Middleware Products Division
>>>
>>>       
>> --
>>
>> Tim Ellison (t.p.ellison@gmail.com)
>> IBM Java technology centre, UK.
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>   


Mime
View raw message