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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>
Subject Re: ASF has been shipping GPL exception stuff for years and still is ;)
Date Wed, 07 Dec 2005 05:44:48 GMT

On Dec 5, 2005, at 11:22 PM, Dalibor Topic wrote:

>> This is much different than having an explicit hard dependency on a
>> GPL+Exception codebase here, if our VMs would have
>> import org.gnu.classpath.Foo
>> or whatever.
> I believe I see your point. I don't think it would be necessary for  
> the
> VMs to do that, per se, if we had an interface, which we could all
> share/reimplement under a license of their choice. And here we are
> back at real, technical issues. ;)

You are now going to subvert a legal thread on a technical list to a  
technical issue?  :)

> Maybe we had some miscommunication why you were so motivated on  
> getting
> an interface for class libraries hammered out. My plan was to go ahead
> and just merge everything out there into a big coherent whole, while
> letting people mix and match what they want on their own branches/ 
> forks,
> so I was pretty puzzled by the insistance to have an interface for the
> class library first.

Yeah, because you're the Borg of the free java world :)

> That's in general, the most boring area of the
> whole runtime, so I don't think I was alone wondering what that was
> good for, if we were going to merge everything together anyway in the
> end ;)
> Now I see how yet another VM interface would help make people who have
> trouble with some licenses feel more comfortable, and isolated from  
> them.
> That makes a lot more sense. If the motivation has been presented that
> way, I must have missed it, unfortunately, so I am sorry for that. ;(

I seem to have a knack for miscommunicating things.  Can you imagine  
how bad this would be if English wasn't my first language?

> In a way, it's pretty funny how this list gets regularly outbursts of
> miscommunication, all around. As I told people last time around this
> happened, maybe the project members need to talk more to each other  
> off
> list, as my impression is that the little interruptions would not
> happen if people used the "unofficial" communication channels more, to
> evaluate and elaborate on what they are doing and planning to do. That
> would help cut down on the amount of "WTF???" posts.

Maybe, but the problem is that doesn't scale.  (I wont' say anything  
about transparency as the purpose is for clarity, which I do think  
that 1:1 conversations help...)  Anyone who has stayed with the  
thread this long and had the same confusion may also now understand.

> Guilty as charged, though. ;(
>> I admire (or would if I had some sleep) your zeal in trying to use
>> this as an example to solve the problem, but I think you're tilting
>> at the wrong windmill here.
> OK. Have some rest. I don't really think it is an actual problem any
> more. Things are going OK as they are, afaict.
>> Either way, can we agree that we've made the Harmony community aware
>> of this, and bring over to the ASF legal discussion lists rather than
>> here?
> No longer necessary. Neither would it be relevant to this project, nor
> would it be really interesting, as at the core, the licensing stuff is
> only useful for obviously trivial setups, and it won't get us what we
> need.


Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437

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