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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>
Subject Re: compiling bootJVM with MSVC
Date Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:30:12 GMT

On Nov 9, 2005, at 5:59 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote:

> Hi Geir,
>
> On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 06:44 -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> On Nov 7, 2005, at 5:40 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 08:44 -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>>> Lets not count our chickens here.  The LGPL policy is still in the
>>>> works, and may not allow anything but limited-time optional
>>>> dependencies, and no re-distrubution of LGPL-ed artifacts.
>>>
>>> But that is all we need for now don't we?
>>
>> No, because we want to be able to distribute complete tested
>> implementations of J2SE, right? :)
>
> It is a start don't you agree? And one that would help us forward now.
> In the end we want to combine all the projects to make up a complete
> free J2SE replacement. That will indeed take more work and  
> cooperation.
> But this seems like a nice start.

Yes, it's certainly a start.

>
>>> Of course we should lobby for more freedom.
>>
>> I won't take that bait :0
>
> I am not sure I am following you. If it is the word freedom, then
> replace it with flexibility. What we want if that the board allows  
> us to
> combine and distribute the various projects. The above is a good first
> step since lots of people want to use and depend on LGPL-covered  
> works.

Ah!  That's the key though - I don't think we are going to see ASF  
projects with unrestricted LGPL-ed dependencies.  Maybe optional  
ones, but there will be limits.

> Over time we would like to have more compromises of course. Just  
> like we
> compromised with GNU Classpath and added an exception statement to the
> GPLv2. If we could get something similar for the ASL to make it
> compatible with the GPL for the harmony code covered by the ASLv2 that
> would be ideal imho.

This is a long subject, maybe for another post.

>
>>> But the main thing is to make sure there are no roadblocks for
>>> collaboration between the different free sofware projects.
>>
>> Indeed!  That's why I'm so certain that interoperability of modules
>> and componentization will be so beneficial for us.
>
> Sure, but then we must be sure that we can combine these modules and
> components into a larger work in a way that makes both the GNU and
> Apache communities happy.

We have no problem if, for example, standard APIs like  
javax.persistence are implemented under LGPL or -ish, because the  
user has full freedom to find a replacement for that LGPL-ed work and  
retains functionality.

So that's what my vision for this is - a set of interfaces that we  
create/adopt together, and the give us each freedom to implement  
under our own license and users to choose and mix and match.

>
>>> If the board really refuses to allow us to distributed a fully
>>> integrated system containing all parts we can always put the whole
>>> collection up somewhere else. But we will cross that bridge when we
>>> get there. Lets first put together the whole system.
>>
>> Someone can always take the various works and post somewhere else,
>> but we'll distribute what we test, and we won't be able to use Apache
>> TCKs to test something we're not distributing from here.
>
> Then lets make sure we can all distribute it from here. But also think
> carefully whether we are a development group or a distributor. Most
> GNU/Linux distributions are much better at shipping stuff then we
> development communities.

Yes, but the ASF does act as the primary distributor for it's project  
releases.  Others can as well, and do.

I have no problem, of course, of others re-using our work in ways  
that they choose that are legal....

geir

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org



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