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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [legal] Mailing list policy
Date Fri, 15 Jul 2005 06:40:51 GMT

On Jul 14, 2005, at 11:18 AM, Mark Wielaard wrote:

> On Thu, 2005-07-14 at 10:17 -0400, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> I really understand where you are coming from, and really thought
>> about how to present this, because there is no intent to stir up the
>> license wars again :)  I had just been receiving questions from many
>> people and organizations, and felt that we should just make it clear.
> Of course we need to make things clear.
> But these people need to voice their questions and opinions on the  
> list.
> Just like we all do. And then we decide how we want to cooperate with
> each other. I would love to discuss and exchange ideas with people  
> about
> core library issues. How to best setup interfaces between the native
> platform, runtime and core libraries. And I saw some suggestions  
> that I
> was about to comment on. But clearly if we are going the ASLv2 or the
> high-way route I won't participate in that (or at least not through  
> this
> list).

Ok - before we jump to this conclusion, can I ask why?  Can we come  
up with some use-cases that illustrate the downside for you?  Is it  
just "I won't grant a copyright license for code under AL2"?

> What are the concerns of these people and organizations you have  
> spoken
> with? And how can we solve those concerns so that all participants can
> freely exchange their knowledge so that all projects can adopt that
> code?

The concern I heard was "what are the rules behind contributions made  
on the mailing list - it isn't clear".  So I just spelled it out.

Why can't you freely exchange knowledge under these terms?  Any code  
you contribute is some that you can put under any other license as  
well, and we certainly can encourage others to do the same.  I mean,  
I assume that it would be a rare case, and it would be cases where  
you take an active interest in the code...

> You said that you wanted this policy to be an example for the rest of
> Apache.

The example is the explicit statement.  Apache lists operate with  
this as the understanding.  Given our sensitivity to IP issues,  
clarity is good.

> Lets do that. Lets make a policy that means contributions can be
> shared with projects like GNU Classpath, GCC, Kaffe, CACAO, JamVM,  
> etc.
> It seems that is what a lot of people have been wanting for a long  
> time.
> To build a bridge between GNU and Apache. And that is why we started
> this Harmony effort in the first place.

Any contribution *can* be shared with any other project.  If those  
other projects don't like AL2, the contributor can be approached for  
a license under GPL, for example.

I certainly will advocate a policy that any code coming into our SVN  
come through JIRA, and we can certainly suggest that along with AL2,  
contributors also grant [elsewhere] a copyright license under another  
license that hasn't been interpreted to be in conflict with the GPL.   
I assume that would solve the problem?  I'm interested in finding  
ways that anything that's contributed here is usable also by other  
projects, even GPL-ed projects.  That costs us nothing, and has great  
upside for the whole community.

> I proposed a couple of ways to do that in my post. You propose that it
> will all be under ASLv2 and closed off for these projects. How do we
> resolve this conflict? Why are my suggestions not acceptable to you  
> and
> the many people and organizations you talked to.
> Lets start by discussing that in the open.

Ok - first, we figure out what the problem is here on the mail list.   
For anything but code samples, there should be no issue?

For code samples, we want to take them in via JIRA, for tracking  
reasons.  Now, given that we're rather attached to the Apache License  
here at the ASF, I'm not sure we wish to tangle with getting dual  
licenses for contributions *here*.

However, that said, I would certainly encourage that the code also be  
donated by the copyright holder under a mutually acceptable license  
for use w/ GPL, although it would be done elsewhere.

All of the above is hypothetical - me thinking out loud, at the end  
of a long day, and I may have another opinion or a different idea in  
the morning.  However, I do want to discuss options...

Lets illustrate with use cases?


Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437

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