From harmony-dev-return-1352-apmail-incubator-harmony-dev-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Sun Jun 05 16:45:30 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-harmony-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 33535 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2005 16:45:30 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 5 Jun 2005 16:45:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 5758 invoked by uid 500); 5 Jun 2005 16:45:25 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-harmony-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 5694 invoked by uid 500); 5 Jun 2005 16:45:25 -0000 Mailing-List: contact harmony-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 5674 invoked by uid 99); 5 Jun 2005 16:45:25 -0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=10.0 tests=FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (hermes.apache.org: local policy) Received: from smtp1.su.se (HELO smtp1.su.se) (130.237.162.112) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 09:45:23 -0700 Received: from localhost (smtp1.su.se [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.su.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F895380B6 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:45:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp1.su.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1.su.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 12555-03-16 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:45:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail2.physto.se (syslx11.physto.se [130.237.208.17]) by smtp1.su.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id A620238059 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:45:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.physto.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4722822A for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:45:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail2.physto.se ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (syslx11.physto.se [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10751-04 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:45:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from qcplx01.physto.se (qcplx01.physto.se [130.242.128.121]) by mail2.physto.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1109C28229 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:45:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [arch] How much of java.* and friends does Harmony need to write. Was: VM/Classlibrary interface From: Sven de Marothy To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org In-Reply-To: <1DFBE8EF-83E5-4F6F-AC28-0DDBBC69259B@apache.org> References: <41200565319138160@earthlink.net> <1117900759.24056.24.camel@qcplx01.physto.se> <1DFBE8EF-83E5-4F6F-AC28-0DDBBC69259B@apache.org> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:45:16 +0200 Message-Id: <1117989916.18145.23.camel@qcplx01.physto.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.3 (2.0.3-0.mozer.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at physto.se X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at smtp.su.se X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.4 tagged_above=-99 required=7 tests=ALL_TRUSTED X-Spam-Level: X-Virus-Checked: Checked X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N On Sun, 2005-06-05 at 06:25 -0300, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: > On Jun 4, 2005, at 12:59 PM, Sven de Marothy wrote: > > AFAIK there are > > no other class libraries out there which you'll legally be able to > > distribute with Harmony. So why create flexibility when there aren't > > options? > > > > Are you kidding? There aren't options *now* (well, that's not really > true, is it...), Could you elaborate on that? I don't know of any class library distributable under the Apache license. > but that doesn't meant that options won't come > around in the future. I think we're still in the very beginning of > "managed runtime environments" and generalization w/o penalty is a > Good Thing(tm). Reimplementing java.lang certainly is a penalty. Again, this is NOT a major issue. *If* or *when* these options become available, *that* will be the time to adress this. It is not such a major task as folks seem to think here to change the VM-classlib interface. Indeed it has been done already for VMs such as JikesRVM. Reimplementing java.lang is more work. > And maybe we have more to learn in this area from other > implementations and newer Java APIs. I don't like "maybe"s. I like specific problems for which I can devise specific solutions. Maybe Java 1.6 will require VMs to be able to make breakfast; Should we start designing a VM-toaster interface, just in case? > > Why would you want to have a Free VM which can use non-free libraries? > > > > why not? Why restrict that freedom for users? 1) Because Sun hasn't documented their VM interface. 2) Because people who have Sun's class library already have Sun's VM. What would they want with Harmony for? 3) Because I thought the main idea was a complete VM under the Apache license. Not ASL+SCSL. /Sven