From harmony-dev-return-40-apmail-incubator-harmony-dev-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Mon May 09 15:02:13 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-harmony-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 86553 invoked from network); 9 May 2005 15:02:13 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 9 May 2005 15:02:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 19340 invoked by uid 500); 9 May 2005 14:59:15 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-harmony-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 19231 invoked by uid 500); 9 May 2005 14:59:13 -0000 Mailing-List: contact harmony-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 19189 invoked by uid 99); 9 May 2005 14:59:13 -0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=10.0 tests=FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: neutral (hermes.apache.org: local policy) Received: from wildebeest.demon.nl (HELO gnu.wildebeest.org) (83.160.152.237) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Mon, 09 May 2005 07:59:12 -0700 Received: from elsschot.wildebeest.org ([192.168.1.26]) by gnu.wildebeest.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1DV9fT-0001vY-00 for ; Mon, 09 May 2005 16:55:35 +0200 Subject: Re: What's the mood in the trenches? From: Mark Wielaard To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org In-Reply-To: <427DECF6.2060506@gentoo.org> References: <427DECF6.2060506@gentoo.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-IpCS7Y996wGN4nJ0sort" Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 16:57:00 +0200 Message-Id: <1115650620.21639.415.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.0.4 X-Virus-Checked: Checked X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --=-IpCS7Y996wGN4nJ0sort Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Sun, 2005-05-08 at 12:41 +0200, Karl Trygve Kalleberg wrote: > I see from the announcement that the bigwigs of the most popular > free/open-source Java infrastructure projects have signed (Tromey, > Topic, Wielaard in particular), so there is certainly at least a token > interest in the Grand Unification of things. No kidding. Tom, Dalibor and I worked really hard on the unification of GNU Classpath, kaffe and gcj over the last couple of years. We would feel left out if we weren't part of the next Grand Unification! > However, from looking at the Kaffe IRC and mailing list, the Classpath > mailing list and a few other related places, there's not been much a > discussion about this project there yet. Sorry. I was mostly off-line during the weekend. I did just now send a little note about it to the GNU Classpath list since people pointed out how Miguel de Icaza was interpreting it. > Do any of you instigators have a feel for how motivated the core > contributors of your respective projects are about this harmonization? In general I believe everybody wants to see the (perceived) incompatability and hostility between the GNU and Apache communities gone. So on a high level there is agreement that harmonization is a good thing. On this particular announcement and FAQ however there has been a lot of fear, uncertainty and doubt. In particular the start of the proposal was really badly perceived by all the hackers involved in projects around GNU Classpath: > there are many ongoing efforts to produce solutions (Kaffe, Classpath, > etc). There are also efforts that provide alternative approaches to > execution of Java bytecode (GCJ and IKVM). All of these efforts > provide a diversity of solutions, which is healthy, but barriers exist > which prevent these efforts from reaching a greater potential. We need a good explanation of this statement. And I don't have one. The GNU Classpath "ecosystem" has been working on unification and harmony for a long time and everybody seems to agree we are doing a pretty good job. That makes people angry that we volunteered to take part in this harmony effort. You can view a couple of reactions on http://planet.classpath.org/ I'll try to do some damage-control and spread a bit of good spin around this project by pointing out how the GNU Classpath hackers can help the harmony community make decissions on the social and technical issues they are facing. > I'd like nothing more than for this project to succeed. Geir-Arthur and > his round table[] of trusty fellows deserves the best of luck. I promise > to test whatever you produce and package the stable stuff:) Please tell us what you have packaged so far, what it works for already, what makes it difficult to package, what kind of improvements you want to see, etc. Cheers, Mark --=20 Escape the Java Trap with GNU Classpath! http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html Join the community at http://planet.classpath.org/ --=-IpCS7Y996wGN4nJ0sort Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBCf3o8xVhZCJWr9QwRAnolAJsEoTsn4Aw4kyJUW5Rk3k7OamrJegCffEpN BdOzam2X0PY7mYaJrP5f69Q= =T/ZQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-IpCS7Y996wGN4nJ0sort--