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From Jakob Praher <jpra...@yahoo.de>
Subject Re: timeframe for mid-level decissions
Date Thu, 19 May 2005 09:24:15 GMT
Hi Leo,

Leo Simons wrote:
> Hi Jakob!
> 
> On 18-05-2005 22:29, "Jakob Praher" <jpraher@yahoo.de> wrote:
> 
>>When do you want the first Harmony J2SE alpha snapshots to reach the masses?
> 
> 
> "when they're ready"

I think that the psychological aspect of having actual some
milestones/deadlines helps sort out some of the long-term stuff from the
  short term hacking. Especially in VM technology there is so much great
stuff out there - so many projects to build on - that you might never
reach a point of concensus, if you only ship when everyone is happy with
it. IMHO thinking about this "big picture" stuff helps sort out some
infrastructure decisions:

-> do we want to concentrate on the server side (jikes rvm would
probably be fine for that) - for instance: no startup issues

-> do we want to build something that competes with sun j2se/mono on the
desktop side (gnome/redhat would be interested in that)

-> do we want to have different projects for different tasks (is that
effordable now - what is harmony then - a meta project?)

-> are the java specs anough for vm interoperability or should we add
yet another interoperability layer between runtimes?

-> should we just be a forum for vm implementors and should we specify
cross vm stuff (like the gnu.gcj.RawData class) in terms of enhancement
requests?

-> how much manpower is available in the early stages - that helps to
clarify how broad the first aim would be?

Questions like that are essential for establishing the projects identity.

I think the best projects (in that area) are those, that have a special
goal and don't want to be all things to all people. I don't know which
way harmony is going here.

You might disagree here - but i think that this project is a bit
different from other apache projects. Many things completly depend on
the initial decisions. So I don't want to see all people waiting for
some technical decision to take place and thus deadlock their efforts.
At the same the possibily matrix is so huge that you can't take into
account every project thats going on. So again: Make some decissions in
the next months and go for that. Sure the project is in its infancy - I
don't want to push too much.
> 
> 
>>But to be clear - the message from my side: fix decision deadlines and
>>stick to them. build something, ship it early. This is the only way to make
>>*) testers/developers aware
>>*) gain ground in the VM cake
> 
> 
> Seriously, that works well when you can actually do resource planning. In
> volunteer efforts like this, we don't know what resources we have (esp. Not
> the human resources, ie developer hours to spend) so we can't have a
> deadline.

Ok. I don't meant that everybody should work for 24 hours to meet
deadlines. I see deadlines merely as some meta guidlines. For people to
orientate - for instance if I work on some big topics I soon get lost,
when I don't have any organisational structuring. This should help
people - not force them to work!

> 
> Do you know any open source project friendly to volunteer participation that
> is able to fix then keep any kind of deadline? We don't do that at apache,
> it causes stress :)
Ok. I don't want to cause but rather relieve stress by decision making,
structuring and creating a project identity.

bye,
-- Jakob


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