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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Apache Harmony / GNU Classpath
Date Sun, 15 May 2005 22:06:50 GMT

On May 15, 2005, at 4:34 PM, Mladen Turk wrote:

> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> On May 12, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Mladen Turk wrote:
>>> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>>>> Then we need to kick out *a lot* of our top level projects.
>>> Can you give an example?
>>> I always thought that ASF projects are independent from third-party.
>>> At least the board has been advertising that for ages :),
>>> and each ASF hosted project needs to comply to that basic rule.
>> Huh?  This is so incorrect, it's not even wrong....
>> At least in the Java projects, we use *tons* of third-party code  
>> for  our functionality.
> Well, I agree that no man is an island. This would be fine if
> the Harmony is going to be the JVM project, rather then J2SE project.

It's a J2SE project.

> If it will depend for it's core functionality on the code released
> by non-ASF license without giving options to use something else, then
> it might be perceived as 'just a JVM for GNU Classpath'.
> OTOH if it will provide an API for using various classpath
> like libraries without providing its own, then it will still
> be just an JVM.

It's a J2SE project :)

Our main target for distribution will be a full J2SE platform.  That  
doesn't mean we can't include software from elsewhere in the  
platform, nor does it mean we can't have other distributables like a  

> Although 'invitation to propose a commit to GNU classpath' sounds  
> fine,
> I doubt that such a complex project can be made without a single PMC.


>> While certainly not the initiator, Apache Geronimo is the poster   
>> child of this, getting core functionality for it's J2EE mission  
>> from  outside projects such as OpenEJB, ActiveMQ, MX4J, Jetty, etc...
> Sure, but think I read somewhere that GNU code can not be part of ASF
> project (only not as part of a distribution I think).
> So, downloading a J2SE from multiple places?
> Not very user friendly thought.

We're far, far from this point.  The fundamental issue I was  
addressing is that many projects depend on external 3rd party code.

> Also for Geronimo you can easily switch to different JMS, JMX or Web
> layer without your users being worried weather this is still the same
> project.

Yes and no.  Not for a certified build of J2EE you can't.  But what  
you are noting is what I've been trying to say - with a common set of  
interfaces for class libraries and other parts, people can do the  
same thing with Harmony.

Still, at the end of the day, the software we combine and test for  
J2SE must be "fixed".  That doesn't mean we can't do multiple based  
on different parts, but we still must choose- for any of them - a  
fixed set to test and certify as compatible.

> Perhaps I'm totally wrong and just bringing white noise, but IMHO the
> classpath is essential part of any J2SE wannabe project.

the classlibrary is.  GNU Classpath is something we are going to work  
with now, and sort out the license issues in parallel.


> Regards,
> Mladen.

Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437

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