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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [arch] The Third Way : C/C++ and Java and lets go forward
Date Thu, 26 May 2005 12:08:51 GMT

On May 25, 2005, at 7:06 AM, netSQL wrote:

> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
>
>> both  C/C++  and  Java in this effort.
>>
>
>
> Good thought.
>
> Lets consider this one step further for holly grail of Cross  
> Platform: Consider C# (Mono w/ GTK#) and XPCom (Firefox Xross  
> Platform "objects") instaed of C/C++? ( I am sick of C/C++ and even  
> Apple Objective C)
>
> Sort of Start w/ what we have on Fedora4, Eclipse(GTK2 native I  
> belive in SWT) and Tomcat work on it w/ Classpath+GCJ.
>
> Then get this idea http://www.omnicore.com/xdevelop_comparison.htm  
> (look at langs)
> and this Novell idea (look at langs) http://www.mono-project.com/ 
> Plans .
> ( and http://www.ikvm.net - Java deployed on CLI)

I spend a good portion of my few spare cycles pondering C# and Mono.   
I don't have enough of them to have reached any intelligent  
conclusion, though :)

>
> And related croos platform sucessfull efort is http:// 
> wiki.mozilla.org/Gecko:SDK (Works great on Cocoa Mac, Active X,  
> etc.; but this is a C/C++. It's a bit hard to work w/ make and  
> pointers after Ant and GC), re-implement in both Java and ANSI C#.  
> (more on "C/C++" GRE, etc.
> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/embedding/faq.html, such as Geko/GTK 
> + api. Even look at Apache http://httpd.apache.org/cli synergy, and  
> iBatis Java and .NET )
>
> So, what I am saying, a cross platform byte-code and CLI (not  
> native w/ inspiration from XPCom)!

Well, the pros will have to weigh in, but I'm concerned that you'd  
need a translation step from java bytecode to xplatform byte-code for  
everything, and then do your optimization and execution there.  I  
don't know the penalty for that.  I assume that IKVM at least can  
tell us how well that goes.

>
> So if you buy that, what's the compass?
> Here is what a simple PetStore(s) should bein "Haromony XP":
>
> * http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-SWT-browser-widget/ 
> browser.html
>
> * http://primates.ximian.com/~edasque/projects/Tutorial/glade2.html  
> - I can make in Java via ikvm.net.
>
> Maybe target a sample browser app in ANSI C# (nothing evil about  
> ANSI) and Java. Runtime can be bytecode, but somone could port to  
> cross platform CLI.
>
> Summary: pick up where SWT / GCJ / Classpath are and have an eye on  
> C#, steping over C++.

Well, I think that wrt trying to eliminate C++ and C, you've just  
moved the problem elsewhere - because we'll still need a set of  
portable intrinsics and bootstrapper, and C++/C are natural candidates.

That said, I would assume that properly architected, you could follow  
the same pattern and build in the framework we devise a CLI using the  
same techniques in C# used in Java.

I think that's interesting, and certainly would build a larger  
community, but my personal interest is a compatible implementation of  
J2SE.

>
> Why that as focus?
> - Eclipse already WORKS and can and does ship w/ Linux distro (a  
> MAJOR Harmony goal).
> - It's sufficiently chalanging, if the browser widget and  
> application work "XP", the text box, radio buttons is no  
> problem. :-) (And somone down the road can write a full browser w/ 
> Rino in "Hramony")
> - I think that Mono browser and SWT browser are similar. Come up w/  
> ANSI and Java TCK way to implement. The sf.net "motto" is: do one  
> thing and do it well, and I see all these things as convergence.
>
>
> .V
>
>
>  (ot: I think I posted 1st on Java coming w/ FC4 that had a hand in  
> kicking this off ;)
>
>

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org



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