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From Steve Blackburn <Steve.Blackb...@anu.edu.au>
Subject Re: Stop this framework/modularity madness!
Date Tue, 17 May 2005 09:09:57 GMT
Hi Rodrigo,

>I believe the focus should be on deciding if Harmony will star from
>other JVM or not.
>
I agree entirely that this is an important issue, and a lot of people 
are working hard right now to see if this can happen.  Donating an 
entire JVM to apache is not a trivial issue, so we will need to be patient.

However, it is not the either/or situtation you paint above.  I think it 
may make most sense to work on a preexisting donated VM or VMs while 
*concurrently* developing a new VM core or cores from scratch.  This 
approach has a number of advantages, including maximizing our leverage 
from existing work, minimizing startup time and accelerating the process 
of building an existing VM.  It also allows us to more fruitfully 
explore some of the implementation choices (which language to use, ...).

[previously you wrote...]

>Making Harmony modular enouth to be kind of a JVM framework cannot be
>done before having a working JVM. There is a lot of literature about
>how frameworks should emerge from continuous design and development.
>  
>
The donated VM or VMs (if they araise) may already be at this point.  As 
I have already said, this is a process already underway in the Jikes RVM 
project.  I can't speak for the other projects, but they may also be at 
such a stage or, better, have moved beyond that stage.

>This must not be the focus until required, so no JIT plugable layer
>until someone tries to write another JIT for Harmony (emphasis on
>another).
>  
>
I would like to leverage prexisting VMs to push the process of 
modularization.

>Creating such is a big chalenge, to guess what spots need to flexible
>and the others that don't. Guess what, people often make bad guesses
>about these and in the end we have a very complex design with a lot of
>shortcomings.
>  
>
Right.  This is why it is essential that harmony learn from kaffe, gcj, 
jikesrvm, sable, ovm, joeq, etc etc.  The project does not exist in a vacum.

--Steve

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