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From Robert Schuster <theBohem...@gmx.net>
Subject Re: Backward compatibility
Date Thu, 12 May 2005 00:31:31 GMT
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Hi.


> I hope you understand what sticking to the TCK entails. When it comes to 
> implementing GUI stuff for instance, your platform will have to fully copy 
> the official JVM's Swing/AWT widgets and all other details in order for the 
> automation and robot driven tests to pass. The JCK testbase for tiger is 
> immense. To get it setup and run is a skill on its own. To get it to pass 
> all tests takes a serious am mount of tweaking and a noteable knowledge of 
> the javatest harness. It will require implementations on things as extensive 
> as CORBA and RMI. We would need passive agents, tname servers etc.
Ok. We also have an evergrowing test suite called mauve[0].

> 
> Also, when running the TCK bear in mind that you'll have to run the harness 
> with the Sun VM.
> 
> I'm not sure about the particular extent of the testsuite provided with the 
> TCK you guys are talking about (if there is interest can find out more), but 
> the JCK, which is basically a TCK for the entire J2SE jre and jdk will be 
> going on impossible to pass for an alternative implmentation as everything 
> is written with the Sun JDK/JRE in mind and test cases are adapted in ways 
> that will create an infinite unpredictable series of problems when trying to 
> adapt your code.
I am not sure whether this speaks in favor of the TCK. A testsuite
should IMHO be implementation independent ...

> Also, don't forget about quality. Sun put a serious amount of money and 
> manpower into ensuring the quality and compatibility of the JVM. A lot of 
> corporations depend on this. They have a regular update release cycle. For 
> instance we are currently working on 1.3.1_16, 1.4.2_09, 5.0_04 & 5.0_05.
Sorry for poking on this but I want to shatter your believe in "serious
amount of money and manpower" a bit:
http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/awt/BasicStroke.html#feedConsumer(sun.dc.path.PathConsumer,%20java.awt.geom.PathIterator)

Beware: We have more of these bloopers ;)

> Another worry I have is that the effort here might be better redirect to 
> some other project.
This is an often heard suggestion but IMHO it simply does not work this
way: People here have not gathered because they have too much time or
find no place to put their work resources to. The fine people from
Apache met to implement J2SE5 and nothing else.


> We already have Java.
People have various reasons for their commitment. Since I am a GNU
Classpath developer with a strong stance for software freedom you can
guess mine. ;)

> Even if harmony does make it to a 
> useable release people will still prefer to use the Sun VM. It will be the 
> platform people build on and it will be the one they trust.
I for myself have no problem with Sun's VM being used by the majority.
Again I think people here will do this project for the fun/joy/... of it
not neccessarily because they dream of world domination. (= intrinsic
motivation) :)

I want to jump at the chance to send my kindest regards to my fellow
hackers from the Apache community: Thanks for getting together - this
cooperation will rock!

cu
Robert

[0] - http://sources.redhat.com/mauve/
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