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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Java
Date Mon, 16 May 2005 22:20:29 GMT
welcome :)

On May 16, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Ahmed Saad wrote:

> hi all... i'm a computer science student located in cairo, egypt  
> with a
> modest experience in c/c++ (wrote some bsd-style sockets and posix  
> stuff)
> and designing web applications with java/php.... i've just read about
> harmony yesterday on slashdot and i'm just itching to be  
> invloved... and i
> totally agree that there must be an effort to put newbies, like me,  
> on the
> track.. i'll be more backgrouding, doin' research and pushing foreward
> material as much as i can, and i hope i can catch up quickly with  
> gurus down
> here to code more and more....
>  regards,
> ahmed
>
>  On 5/16/05, Patrice Le Vexier <plevexier@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> It would be sad if the list really exponentially divide. I thing  
>> such a
>> big
>> project need a lot of people, and not only VM or compiler gurus. I  
>> think
>> one
>> of the big interest of this project is it can elevate the java  
>> knowledge
>> of
>> the community. But for that, an effort must be made to integrate new
>> comers
>> (I definitely am), by providing a good set of documentation and
>> references,
>> and may be, when it is possible, eating our own food, to avoid to  
>> create a
>> gap between peoples who already worked with technologies where are  
>> going
>> to
>> used, and others who not.
>>
>> Some ideas to try to achieve that:
>>
>> -providing clear documentations on all aspects we are going to  
>> work on,
>> -using a set of tool available on all main platforms (don't exclude
>> windows
>> people, it a J2SE, not just a server system)
>> -try to make it simple, even if the subject is very complicated,
>>
>> If I think meritocracy is the best thing to make good piece of  
>> software,
>> some effort must be made to try to integrate more possible motivated
>> peoples. I definitely am too ;)
>>
>> patrice
>>
>>
>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>> De : acoliver@apache.org [mailto:acoliver@apache.org]
>>> Envoyé : Monday, May 16, 2005 4:40 AM
>>> À : harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Objet : Re: Java
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark Brooks wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Hey, this is an Apache project. There is no lead - we're all  
>>>>> peers.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then we are doomed. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's absurd.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> But if you are looking for something to do .... how can we figure
>>>>> out the viability of this approach, and either park the idea as an
>>>>> interesting one but not appropriate for the project, or a good one
>>>>> that we'll keep going forward with?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I lack the requisite experience to take the lead on this.  
>>>> However, I
>>>> think we couldn't really make that determination until someone has
>>>>
>> done
>>
>>>> some high-level specifications and determined what exactly needs  
>>>> to be
>>>> done. That requires us to identify preliminary issues regarding the
>>>> build environment. Realistically, what is our timeframe here? If we
>>>> have 36 months, we might be able to achieve a lot. If somebody is
>>>> looking for something in the next 12 months, the project might  
>>>> have to
>>>> be scaled back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wow... So I'm guessing you've never worked on an open source  
>>> project.
>>> Welcome. Take a look around, you'll find many projects are governed
>>> this way and accomplish great things without traditional project
>>> management per se.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Exactly what IS Harmony? If the goal is an Apache-licensed J2SE 5.0
>>>> implementation, then we have two parts (1) the VM and (2) the class
>>>> library. Our requirements tool is the TCK -- but somebody still  
>>>> needs
>>>> to reduce that to a series of requirements and specifications so we
>>>>
>> can
>>
>>>> target what needs to be done and estimate how long it will take  
>>>> to do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> So stop complaining and start doing it. There are no appointed  
>>> leaders,
>>> that is not to say there are no leaders. Good leaders take  
>>> action, set
>>> an example and then others choose to follow. The TCK is not our
>>> requirements tool per se. Open specifications are our first and
>>> foremost tools. There is a reason for this, the TCK is governed my
>>> nondisclosure agreements that will only make it open to key  
>>> contributors
>>> most likely Apache members. However, plenty of information is out  
>>> there
>>> that will allow everyone qualified to contribute. how will we filter
>>> the qualfied? Frankly the population of this list will exponentially
>>> divide once real coding starts :-)
>>>
>>> -Andy
>>>
>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andrew C. Oliver
>>> SuperLink Software, Inc.
>>>
>>> Java to Excel using POI
>>> http://www.superlinksoftware.com/services/poi
>>> Commercial support including features added/implemented, bugs fixed.
>>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org



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