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From Ajay Kumar <ajay.ku...@hortonworks.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Making submarine to different release model like Ozone
Date Fri, 01 Feb 2019 18:54:19 GMT
+1, Thanks for driving this. With rise of use cases running ML along with traditional applications
this will be of great help.

Thanks,
Ajay   

On 2/1/19, 10:49 AM, "Suma Shivaprasad" <sumasai.shivaprasad@gmail.com> wrote:

    +1. Thanks for bringing this up Wangda.
    
    Makes sense to have Submarine follow its own release cadence given the good
    momentum/adoption so far. Also, making it run with older versions of Hadoop
    would drive higher adoption.
    
    Suma
    
    On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 9:40 AM Eric Yang <eyang@hortonworks.com> wrote:
    
    > Submarine is an application built for YARN framework, but it does not have
    > strong dependency on YARN development.  For this kind of projects, it would
    > be best to enter Apache Incubator cycles to create a new community.  Apache
    > commons is the only project other than Incubator that has independent
    > release cycles.  The collection is large, and the project goal is
    > ambitious.  No one really knows which component works with each other in
    > Apache commons.  Hadoop is a much more focused project on distributed
    > computing framework and not incubation sandbox.  For alignment with Hadoop
    > goals, and we want to prevent Hadoop project to be overloaded while
    > allowing good ideas to be carried forwarded in Apache incubator.  Put on my
    > Apache Member hat, my vote is -1 to allow more independent subproject
    > release cycle in Hadoop project that does not align with Hadoop project
    > goals.
    >
    > Apache incubator process is highly recommended for Submarine:
    > https://incubator.apache.org/policy/process.html This allows Submarine to
    > develop for older version of Hadoop like Spark works with multiple versions
    > of Hadoop.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Eric
    >
    > On 1/31/19, 10:51 PM, "Weiwei Yang" <abvclouds@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >     Thanks for proposing this Wangda, my +1 as well.
    >     It is amazing to see the progress made in Submarine last year, the
    > community grows fast and quiet collaborative. I can see the reasons to get
    > it release faster in its own cycle. And at the same time, the Ozone way
    > works very well.
    >
    >     —
    >     Weiwei
    >     On Feb 1, 2019, 10:49 AM +0800, Xun Liu <neliuxun@163.com>, wrote:
    >     > +1
    >     >
    >     > Hello everyone,
    >     >
    >     > I am Xun Liu, the head of the machine learning team at Netease
    > Research Institute. I quite agree with Wangda.
    >     >
    >     > Our team is very grateful for getting Submarine machine learning
    > engine from the community.
    >     > We are heavy users of Submarine.
    >     > Because Submarine fits into the direction of our big data team's
    > hadoop technology stack,
    >     > It avoids the needs to increase the manpower investment in learning
    > other container scheduling systems.
    >     > The important thing is that we can use a common YARN cluster to run
    > machine learning,
    >     > which makes the utilization of server resources more efficient, and
    > reserves a lot of human and material resources in our previous years.
    >     >
    >     > Our team have finished the test and deployment of the Submarine and
    > will provide the service to our e-commerce department (
    > http://www.kaola.com/) shortly.
    >     >
    >     > We also plan to provides the Submarine engine in our existing YARN
    > cluster in the next six months.
    >     > Because we have a lot of product departments need to use machine
    > learning services,
    >     > for example:
    >     > 1) Game department (http://game.163.com/) needs AI battle training,
    >     > 2) News department (http://www.163.com) needs news recommendation,
    >     > 3) Mailbox department (http://www.163.com) requires anti-spam and
    > illegal detection,
    >     > 4) Music department (https://music.163.com/) requires music
    > recommendation,
    >     > 5) Education department (http://www.youdao.com) requires voice
    > recognition,
    >     > 6) Massive Open Online Courses (https://open.163.com/) requires
    > multilingual translation and so on.
    >     >
    >     > If Submarine can be released independently like Ozone, it will help
    > us quickly get the latest features and improvements, and it will be great
    > helpful to our team and users.
    >     >
    >     > Thanks hadoop Community!
    >     >
    >     >
    >     > > 在 2019年2月1日,上午2:53,Wangda Tan <wheeleast@gmail.com>
写道:
    >     > >
    >     > > Hi devs,
    >     > >
    >     > > Since we started submarine-related effort last year, we received a
    > lot of
    >     > > feedbacks, several companies (such as Netease, China Mobile, etc.)
    > are
    >     > > trying to deploy Submarine to their Hadoop cluster along with big
    > data
    >     > > workloads. Linkedin also has big interests to contribute a
    > Submarine TonY (
    >     > > https://github.com/linkedin/TonY) runtime to allow users to use
    > the same
    >     > > interface.
    >     > >
    >     > > From what I can see, there're several issues of putting Submarine
    > under
    >     > > yarn-applications directory and have same release cycle with
    > Hadoop:
    >     > >
    >     > > 1) We started 3.2.0 release at Sep 2018, but the release is done
    > at Jan
    >     > > 2019. Because of non-predictable blockers and security issues, it
    > got
    >     > > delayed a lot. We need to iterate submarine fast at this point.
    >     > >
    >     > > 2) We also see a lot of requirements to use Submarine on older
    > Hadoop
    >     > > releases such as 2.x. Many companies may not upgrade Hadoop to 3.x
    > in a
    >     > > short time, but the requirement to run deep learning is urgent to
    > them. We
    >     > > should decouple Submarine from Hadoop version.
    >     > >
    >     > > And why we wanna to keep it within Hadoop? First, Submarine
    > included some
    >     > > innovation parts such as enhancements of user experiences for YARN
    >     > > services/containerization support which we can add it back to
    > Hadoop later
    >     > > to address common requirements. In addition to that, we have a big
    > overlap
    >     > > in the community developing and using it.
    >     > >
    >     > > There're several proposals we have went through during Ozone merge
    > to trunk
    >     > > discussion:
    >     > >
    > https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-common-dev/201803.mbox/%3CCAHfHakH6_m3YLdf5a2KQ8+w-5fbVX5aHFgS-x1VaJW8gmnzRLg@mail.gmail.com%3E
    >     > >
    >     > > I propose to adopt Ozone model: which is the same master branch,
    > different
    >     > > release cycle, and different release branch. It is a great example
    > to show
    >     > > agile release we can do (2 Ozone releases after Oct 2018) with less
    >     > > overhead to setup CI, projects, etc.
    >     > >
    >     > > *Links:*
    >     > > - JIRA: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/YARN-8135
    >     > > - Design doc
    >     > > <
    > https://docs.google.com/document/d/199J4pB3blqgV9SCNvBbTqkEoQdjoyGMjESV4MktCo0k/edit
    > >
    >     > > - User doc
    >     > > <
    > https://hadoop.apache.org/docs/r3.2.0/hadoop-yarn/hadoop-yarn-applications/hadoop-yarn-submarine/Index.html
    > >
    >     > > (3.2.0
    >     > > release)
    >     > > - Blogposts, {Submarine} : Running deep learning workloads on
    > Apache Hadoop
    >     > > <
    > https://hortonworks.com/blog/submarine-running-deep-learning-workloads-apache-hadoop/
    > >,
    >     > > (Chinese Translation: Link <https://www.jishuwen.com/d/2Vpu>)
    >     > > - Talks: Strata Data Conf NY
    >     > > <
    > https://conferences.oreilly.com/strata/strata-ny-2018/public/schedule/detail/68289
    > >
    >     > >
    >     > > Thoughts?
    >     > >
    >     > > Thanks,
    >     > > Wangda Tan
    >     >
    >     >
    >     >
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