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From Steve Loughran <ste...@hortonworks.com>
Subject Re: Moving to JDK7, JDK8 and new major releases
Date Wed, 25 Jun 2014 00:56:08 GMT
+1, though I think 2.5 may be premature if we want to send a warning note
"last ever". That's an issue for followon "when in branch 2".

Guava and protobuf.jar are two things we have to leave alone, with the
first being unfortunate, but their attitude to updates is pretty dramatic.
The latter? We all know how traumatic that can be.

-Steve


On 24 June 2014 16:44, Alejandro Abdelnur <tucu@cloudera.com> wrote:

> After reading this thread and thinking a bit about it, I think it should be
> OK such move up to JDK7 in Hadoop 2 for the following reasons:
>
> * Existing Hadoop 2 releases and related projects are running
>   on JDK7 in production.
> * Commercial vendors of Hadoop have already done lot of
>   work to ensure Hadoop on JDK7 works while keeping Hadoop
>   on JDK6 working.
> * Different from many of the 3rd party libraries used by Hadoop,
>   JDK is much stricter on backwards compatibility.
>
> IMPORTANT: I take this as an exception and not as a carte blanche for 3rd
> party dependencies and for moving from JDK7 to JDK8 (though it could OK for
> the later if we end up in the same state of affairs)
>
> Even for Hadoop 2.5, I think we could do the move:
>
> * Create the Hadoop 2.5 release branch.
> * Have one nightly Jenkins job that builds Hadoop 2.5 branch
>   with JDK6 to ensure not JDK7 language/API  feature creeps
>   out in Hadoop 2.5. Keep this for all Hadoop 2.5.x releases.
> * Sanity tests for the Hadoop 2.5.x releases should be done
>   with JDK7.
> * Apply Steve’s patch to require JDK7 on trunk and branch-2.
> * Move all Apache Jenkins jobs to build/test using JDK7.
> * Starting from Hadoop 2.6 we support JDK7 language/API
>   features.
>
> Effectively what we are ensuring that Hadoop 2.5.x builds and test with
> JDK6 & JDK7 and that all tests towards the release
> are done with JDK7.
>
> Users can proactively upgrade to JDK7 before upgrading to Hadoop 2.5.x, or
> if upgrade to Hadoop 2.5.x and they run into any issue because of JDK6
> (which it would be quite unlikely) they can reactively upgrade to JDK7.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Andrew Wang <andrew.wang@cloudera.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > On dependencies, we've bumped library versions when we think it's safe
> and
> > the APIs in the new version are compatible. Or, it's not leaked to the
> app
> > classpath (e.g the JUnit version bump). I think the JIRAs Arun mentioned
> > fall into one of those categories. Steve can do a better job explaining
> > this to me, but we haven't bumped things like Jetty or Guava because they
> > are on the classpath and are not compatible. There is this line in the
> > compat guidelines:
> >
> >    - Existing MapReduce, YARN & HDFS applications and frameworks should
> >    work unmodified within a major release i.e. Apache Hadoop ABI is
> > supported.
> >
> > Since Hadoop apps can and do depend on the Hadoop classpath, the
> classpath
> > is effectively part of our API. I'm sure there are user apps out there
> that
> > will break if we make incompatible changes to the classpath. I haven't
> read
> > up on the MR JIRA Arun mentioned, but there MR isn't the only YARN app
> out
> > there.
> >
> > Sticking to the theme of "work unmodified", let's think about the user
> > effort required to upgrade their JDK. This can be a very expensive task.
> It
> > might need approval up and down the org, meaning lots of certification,
> > testing, and signoff. Considering the amount of user effort involved
> here,
> > it really seems like dropping a JDK is something that should only happen
> in
> > a major release. Else, there's the potential for nasty surprises in a
> > supposedly "minor" release.
> >
> > That said, we are in an unhappy place right now regarding JDK6, and it's
> > true that almost everyone's moved off of JDK6 at this point. So, I'd be
> > okay with an intermediate 2.x release that drops JDK6 support (but no
> > incompatible changes to the classpath like Guava). This is basically
> free,
> > and we could start using JDK7 idioms like multi-catch and new NIO stuff
> in
> > Hadoop code (a minor draw I guess).
> >
> > My higher-level goal though is to avoid going through this same pain
> again
> > when JDK7 goes EOL. I'd like to do a JDK8-based release before then for
> > this reason. This is why I suggested skipping an intermediate 2.x+JDK7
> > release and leapfrogging to 3.0+JDK8. 10 months is really not that far in
> > the future, and it seems like a better place to focus our efforts. I was
> > also hoping it'd be realistic to fix our classpath leakage by then, since
> > then we'd have a nice, tight, future-proofed new major release.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Arun C Murthy <acm@hortonworks.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Andrew,
> > >
> > >  Thanks for starting this thread. I'll edit the wiki to provide more
> > > context around rolling-upgrades etc. which, as I pointed out in the
> > > original thread, are key IMHO.
> > >
> > > On Jun 24, 2014, at 11:17 AM, Andrew Wang <andrew.wang@cloudera.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > https://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/MovingToJdk7and8
> > > >
> > > > I think based on our current compatibility guidelines, Proposal A is
> > the
> > > > most attractive. We're pretty hamstrung by the requirement to keep
> the
> > > > classpath the same, which would be solved by either OSGI or shading
> our
> > > > deps (but that's a different discussion).
> > >
> > > I don't see that anywhere in our current compatibility guidelines.
> > >
> > > As you can see from
> > >
> >
> http://hadoop.apache.org/docs/stable/hadoop-project-dist/hadoop-common/Compatibility.html
> > > we do not have such a policy (pasted here for convenience):
> > >
> > > Java Classpath
> > >
> > > User applications built against Hadoop might add all Hadoop jars
> > > (including Hadoop's library dependencies) to the application's
> classpath.
> > > Adding new dependencies or updating the version of existing
> dependencies
> > > may interfere with those in applications' classpaths.
> > >
> > > Policy
> > >
> > > Currently, there is NO policy on when Hadoop's dependencies can change.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, we have *already* changed our classpath in hadoop-2.x.
> > Again,
> > > as I pointed out in the previous thread, here is the precedent:
> > >
> > > On Jun 21, 2014, at 5:59 PM, Arun C Murthy <acm@hortonworks.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Also, this is something we already have done i.e. we updated some of
> > our
> > > software deps in hadoop-2.4 v/s hadoop-2.2 - clearly not something as
> > > dramatic as JDK. Here are some examples:
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-9991
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-10102
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-10103
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-10104
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-10503
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > Arun
> > > --
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>
>
>
> --
> Alejandro
>

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